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 Arrangement window please?
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23 2007 16:29    
Arrangement window please?
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Usually I will do it this way that I will write down to paper which patterns belong to verse and which ones belong to chorus and when I am arranging then I will modify sequence list so that while reading from paper "ahaa, I need to add 2F 3F 10 25 as one verse, then chorus as 05 0f 06 0f"... is it possible to automate somehow with menu or something which displays the associations to some set of patterns which can be added as one?

so, suggestion to have arrangement window.
purpose: to get better overview about the song elements so that these can be moved as one block if it consists more than one pattern.

possible way how to do it: to make macro system which can contain small patterns Smile and it can be named as "verse" or so. But the small patterns can be also separately accessed.

And so these macros can be added to sequence. The sequence can be played and the macro ingredients is also accessible during modification. So, it will look like a script or so, while it offers also overview of the system and the ingredients can be viewed, played while
organizing them.
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goose
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Joined: 11 May 2003
Location: aroundabout
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23 2007 23:19    
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This can be done already, pretty much.... you can rename the paterns in the sequence editor, and move groups of selected patterns together (Ctrl + click, then drag.)
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24 2007 00:25    
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goose wrote:
This can be done already, pretty much.... you can rename the paterns in the sequence editor, and move groups of selected patterns together (Ctrl + click, then drag.)


this way it is possible only to see existing
sequence but not the not used patterns. So,
not so much overview about not used, _but_ already composed patterns. If I would like
to add then scrolling through the patterns required.


one solution what I thought which will be perhaps helpful atleast for someone more:



sequence:
LEFT window contents: already existing sequence
(so this part is as it is always).


usedPatterns window.
RIGHT1 window: purpose to show all __nonempty__ patterns list (with names if associated).
(with button which "add the Pattern" to existing sequence (like it is right now, this LEFT named window )and "add the Pattern to CHAIN" which is RIGHT2 window
if possible then to switch also option which shows patterns which are NOT used in module Smile


Third window, even more right.
it is the CHAINwindow. Here are the fragments.
so thats what I meant:
it displays user associated names to pattern sequences and pattern sequences -- chain fragments are created here for later adding to composition!


for example:
intro: 3f 20 3d 05 3f 3g
verse1: 20 11 21 11

(with chain manipulation buttons)
and with button "add chain to sequence"

etc.

and in the main sequence, well, it may contain the classical way these pattern numbers but it can also hide them to show the associated chain name which is inserted (with song length orders 60+ patterns I have wished that there is also this sequencer arrangement window also as big as tracking window Laughing so.

this chain window perhaps is to make as "sequence in a sequence" window perhaps.
and there is possible to make also this kind of manipulation that the new pattern while recorded is at first added to chain, before chain is inserted to main sequence. or when inserting the pattern to chain, then chain automatically has the pattern in main sequence too.


and so, idea is feature to add, delete, modify, these chain fragments. and with these readymade fragments can be added much quickly than just multiple times clicking existing pieces and so, no needed to scroll so much.

It aint too much complex as non-empty pattern function seems already existing in MT ?
so, what you think about it?

how to keep that data: perhaps as additional file (which are saved with different extension) will hold this data, if the file format modified for this feature will makes backward compatibility worse.


It seems somehow good idea becouse I am just writing every time out the patterns which belong to one logical group with certain sequence, but I tend to edit a lot and data on paper will be mostly outdated as there are much more not used patterns as I write down them.


Or atleast will be there this option which will allow to paste together songs atleast then?... no, wait, this is still useless as it dont show unused patterns and their logical associations. Smile Very Happy Laughing Laughing Laughing

or atleast just this window which shows the logical chains and non-empty patterns... Razz please.
I guess that if the update is hard to make, then perhaps its simplest thing to do the external little program with these features which will display the info and some pattern sequence assassin is possible? Smile then the workflow is like so: active song save, external program editing sequence, song reload, voila!
(console, text mode is ok) Very Happy

so..? Laughing
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Frazze
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Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Location: Lund, Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24 2007 11:30    
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Couldn't you just switch between the patterns when you need to see whats what?

This seems like an unnecessary feature to me, especially since MadTracker does not have a large professional crew working on it. But maybe thats just me, making up my tracks as i go along.


http://www.last.fm/music/8ism
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24 2007 12:40    
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professional or not it does not matter whatever it is and whatever it does. I imagine that this feature is not so complex at all to include as it is mostly cosmetical feature since program itself knows already which patterns are used.

Frazze wrote:
Couldn't you just switch between the patterns when you need to see whats what?


Too much patterns to scroll. And complex pattern sequences.
Perhaps You can memorize complex long pattern sequences where some fragments will belong, but I would be more than happy to have this displayed without any scrolling.
To scroll through its very very annoying and I need to write down to paper. Even the main sequence order view window is tiny.

Imagine song with more than 40 patterns and you are scrolling through n+1 times every time you need to take overview of already used and not used patterns and trying to memorize where some fragments will belong together with other patterns (which fragment is actually sequence of patterns not pattern itself!!).
Is it the MT2 format description public for now? No? If it will be public then I could write myself also this arrangement feature ready as standalone program.

[edit]
Being used with it in the ages of FT2, but I remember that ST3.2 has also bigger window for pattern sequence, but I still feel that this feature which will offer better overview of a song, is missing. This feature what I asked it
is not so complex, but it gives much more. The tracker window can be extended, why not also arranging window? Smile
It would give much professional value to program.
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24 2008 11:24    
still... arrangement window.
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Becouse Madtracker is recording "note off" messages to the wrong channel I considered to go to back to FastTracker 2. FT2 midi support is more bugfree still.

But i guess for that its still required to write like some sort of arrangement window.
sometimes will "get lost" in the pattern numbers with complex long sequences and sometimes will forget if I have unused patterns in a module.

So, I decide to write it myself...
I make it as external program which I use it through FT2 DOS shell or just parallel on another screen on another computer and after EACH change the module I have to re-load. Oh YES, PURE DOS, not dosbox, pure dos on 486 and with NFS networking Smile and 2 computers tied together via LAN.

So the program final impression should be like...
escape to dosshell, arranger load:
actual sequence

""
sequence 01 00 01 00 05 20 21

possible to seek, tag, move, delete as blocks, copy and insert.

patterns 22 44 45 not used in composition
patterns 1F 25 not used in composition but tagged as "verse" segment.

[ ] 03 03 06 06 tagged as VERSE, insert, insert
[ ] 09 08 06 07 03 tagged as BR1, _insert


so it could be very simple macro based arranger and simple to copy/insert fast these ones to form a song and not to get lost in it after completing as the removing sequences will work the same way, with blocks.
Still, it seems quite a messy in FT2 after returning if getting too used with that. But I guess it would save quite much energy and I have also the arrangement on the screen already and overview. Smile


Last edited by SX001 on Thu Jul 24 2008 11:33; edited 1 time in total
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24 2008 11:27    
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Frazze wrote:
Couldn't you just switch between the patterns when you need to see whats what?



why I have to __switch between patterns to SEEK__ if its more convenient to display what is unused, which are tagged etc...
MOD4WIN displays "unused patterns in module" why not madtracker too?

why not to have overview in big picture that which fragments are in the song and not used and what is for what just if its been tagged before?
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