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Stufe_7
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22 2012 22:59    
Alternatives?
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Since everything is going down here i just wanted to share with you what`s now common in the Tracker scene.

You can choose between:

OpenModplug Tracker: Open-source and free, newest standards, nice and "active" community and programmers.

http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php

Renoise: Paid but for about 50 bucks you get a great deal and a high-end tracker.

http://www.renoise.com/

Greets.

Edit: There are many more Trackers still out there but most of them will not run under Win7, so.....

Here is a list of (all) most Tracking programs:

http://woolyss.com/tracking.php.html
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23 2012 09:55    
Re: Alternatives?
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What you have in mind saying that? That someone should abandon MadTracker even if the other trackers are mostly the same?
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plugexpert
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23 2012 10:42    
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imo people shouldn't abandon madtracker if they are content with its current state, but I think it is vaporware. No comparison with Renoise which quality, features, development & community is alive and kicking.


http://plugexpert.bandcamp.com/
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Stufe_7
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23 2012 21:44    
Re: Alternatives?
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SX001 wrote:
What you have in mind saying that? That someone should abandon MadTracker even if the other trackers are mostly the same?


Don`t get me wrong i still think Mad Tracker 2 is one of the best trackers ever made but the problem is it was last updated 2006 and there is no bugfixes etc...

In my case the problem is it is not compatible with Ni Maschine and some people will have the same problem with different gear.

Open Modplug and Renoise are a alternative because there is a big community active and the programmers work on their program, bring updates bugfixes etc...

The next thing is i wanted to set up my website via madtracker and in member section is written that the webhost will be shutdown.

That`s what i ment with it`s going down but it was not my intention to offend anyone.....
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AmEv
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Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Location: Looking for MT3 devs! Wanna join?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24 2012 00:06    
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You know what I want?

MT3.


Right now, that hasn't happened for a while, and it still is going to take a while.


We are looking for developers for MadTracker 3!
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26 2012 09:40    
Re: Alternatives?
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Stufe_7 wrote:
SX001 wrote:
What you have in mind saying that? That someone should abandon MadTracker even if the other trackers are mostly the same?


Don`t get me wrong i still think Mad Tracker 2 is one of the best trackers ever made but the problem is it was last updated 2006 and there is no bugfixes etc...

In my case the problem is it is not compatible with Ni Maschine and some people will have the same problem with different gear.

Open Modplug and Renoise are a alternative because there is a big community active and the programmers work on their program, bring updates bugfixes etc...

The next thing is i wanted to set up my website via madtracker and in member section is written that the webhost will be shutdown.

That`s what i ment with it`s going down but it was not my intention to offend anyone.....


Yes, indeed, the Madtracker 2.6.1 is the best tracker for someone who wants to use Pentium 4, but still with WIN98SE and with multiple MIDI ports, VST, multichannel audio. There is no other match for this for these parameters listed above here.

But "updates" is in M$ (Microsoft) term meaning actually "bugfix". Its their own word which are to patch up their for early product launch before its ready. Thats nothing to follow. It was used becouse "bugfix" is negative in their opinion. And all is only becouse they could "complete while its still not ready".

But yes, bugfixes for MT2 are still a problem, but WHICH bugs are you actually complaining about? I know only MIDI port problem and I am begging bugfixes too. But this kind of agitation what you made is like a clear "lets move out somewhere else".

And renoise etc is not option becouse it develops with its own requirements. The support section to me said very baldly "We dont support WIN98SE, there is not possible to make correctly audio software." And Yannick can do it? Thats interesting.
Also Renoise did not supported MIDI import export in reliable way.

It does not support old win opsystems like Madtracker 2. And I am not changing OS becouse some new products set its own higher requirements for MSwin version.
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Serdin
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Joined: 04 Jul 2012
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04 2012 20:36    
Re: Alternatives?
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SX001 wrote:

But yes, bugfixes for MT2 are still a problem, but WHICH bugs are you actually complaining about? I know only MIDI port problem and I am begging bugfixes too. But this kind of agitation what you made is like a clear "lets move out somewhere else".


Have used MT2 for maybe 10 years, but when i had to get a new computer, bacause my old one died Sad Madtracker doesnt work anymore. Its still just win xp, but Madtracker has one bug which makes it unusable for me: It just quits the program out of nowhere, randomly.
I tried just working with it and saving like every minute, but when you are in the zone sometimes you forget....and lose everything. When this just made me insane, i had to quit, i didnt make music for a few months, now just using renoise.....Never wanted to use it because i still like MT better....But there is no choice for me if i still want to make music..... Sad
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05 2012 11:51    
Re: Alternatives?
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Serdin wrote:
SX001 wrote:

But yes, bugfixes for MT2 are still a problem, but WHICH bugs are you actually complaining about? I know only MIDI port problem and I am begging bugfixes too. But this kind of agitation what you made is like a clear "lets move out somewhere else".


Have used MT2 for maybe 10 years, but when i had to get a new computer, bacause my old one died Sad Madtracker doesnt work anymore. Its still just win xp, but Madtracker has one bug which makes it unusable for me: It just quits the program out of nowhere, randomly.
I tried just working with it and saving like every minute, but when you are in the zone sometimes you forget....and lose everything. When this just made me insane, i had to quit, i didnt make music for a few months, now just using renoise.....Never wanted to use it because i still like MT better....But there is no choice for me if i still want to make music..... Sad


Quits randomly? with which error message?

I have similar problem with Cubase VST when arrangement will have more material.
Perhaps machine is a way too new with its configuration. What is the configuration?
Do you have just single core?
In MT2, old routing and just single core mode in config?
How it works when just having 500MB..1GB memory.

UNfortunately I got in working shape that MT2.6.1 due to trial and error. In the past I had such errors in systems like MT2 is missing MIDI events while sending out notes. The reason was very odd: ASIO bufffer size. There was one magical number what fixed that error. But the MIDI device had nothing to do with m-audio ASIO card since my MIDI device is LPT port driven MIDI Express XT.

Also it can be becouse of audio hardware drivers. What are those?
The difference between WIN XP and WIN98SE is most likely that what on WIN98SE crashed the entire system becouse of hardware or so, in WINXP it can happen that program will be closed (just like avoiding "our system does not crash"), but
it just did.

I talk this becouse I have figured out to get work things on DOS what others do under WIN98SE, and got working things what others to from atleast WIN2000. BEsides others say that 98SE has 512MB limitation and so on, I got 1024MB system running.

Well, I have my own requirements too for workarounds, but Yannick seems not interested unfortunately though he got paid with his own needs and has many registered users Evil or Very Mad ) . But based on this the suggestion to throw away entire system is stupid like changing the car becouse ashtray cant be emptied.

Otherwise You can get old system working when searching secondhand computer items from e-bay and such items for some bucks are really worth to try!
Hey, I had graphic card failure last year and which was Nvidia 6200 series with AGP bus. Well I got these replacements from e-bay and then I bought 3 of those. What next? Perhaps motherboard backup too if I dont want to swap these capacitors on motherboard, becouse its from 2005. Smile
With laptops though I can never fix those errors.

Anyway, just write the whole specification of Your old computer and what exactly went wrong in your old computer. So we can fix it if its NOT a laptop or the HDD issue only.
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Serdin
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Joined: 04 Jul 2012
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05 2012 17:26    
Re: Alternatives?
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SX001 wrote:
Anyway, just write the whole specification of Your old computer and what exactly went wrong in your old computer. So we can fix it if its NOT a laptop or the HDD issue only.


Hi, thanks for trying to help me, i have really tried everything i can think of to make it work, change the buffer size and other settings, install it again, change compatibility mode....

No there is no message.... one moment its just working and its fine, then the screen just disappears real fast...It goes away out of nothing with no error message.... Just leaves me looking like this: Shocked

The hardware drivers are just standard factory driver, no changes or special things, i tried asio4all but it just makes it slower somehow and it still does the same crash, so i just used standard driver again..

It's a second hand acer veriton l460, this is what's inside:
http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/desktop/0000/Acer/VeritonL460/VeritonL460sp2.shtml

I have the celeron processor i think,because it is with one processor(no dual core) and 1 ram GB memory

I dont think i can opem the computer though, there are a few screws on the back but the case is just solid plastic on the sides.... Maybe i will try and sell this one again and try another(older one), to see if that works... But if u know something maybe a trick i can try to make it work, i would be vary happy Smile

Thanks for taking your time with this Smile
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05 2012 18:27    
Re: Alternatives?
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Serdin wrote:

The hardware drivers are just standard factory driver, no changes or special things, i tried asio4all but it just makes it slower somehow and it still does the same crash, so i just used standard driver again..

It's a second hand acer veriton l460, this is what's inside:
http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/desktop/0000/Acer/VeritonL460/VeritonL460sp2.shtml

I have the celeron processor i think,because it is with one processor(no dual core) and 1 ram GB memory

I dont think i can opem the computer though, there are a few screws on the back but the case is just solid plastic on the sides.... Maybe i will try and sell this one again and try another(older one), to see if that works... But if u know something maybe a trick i can try to make it work, i would be vary happy Smile

Thanks for taking your time with this Smile


The machine does not have to be old by some means. Just compatible for system you run on it.

what I really suspect is that You have memory incompatibility issues. Try reducing the memory speed in BIOS for this computer to DDR400 or reduce the CPU speed ca 20%. You can also try to make full memory test under the DOS.
Just like your windows with the program will step on a faulty
memory adress, then those things will happen. the same thing with incompatible drivers. that windows is not that smart at all.

Also sometimes these supplied default drivers dont work.
sometimes the newest driver is not working in needed config (for me it was gigabit driver that newest update did not worked, older was ok). So, you need try older drivers too.

About Your current system. The soundcard itself is a realtek AC97 on your computers motherboard. You have to try 'em all try at first the other realtek drivers.
the current version is A5.07 I guess. But it does not mean that it is supposed to work without errors.

AFAIK its a lot of research, information search and experimenting several weeks. But it pays off itself later in working configuration and expanded knowledge of your system. Then it is under your control and can repair it later. I can help only a little.


What about the old computer which "died" as you said? what it had wrong? Power supply failure? Memory? HDD? describe exactly what it was, including expansion cards and OS on it.
Perhaps its much simpler to get that one in working order?

One idea more:
Also it MAY be a conflict with several software packages in the same operative system which means that cant compromise.
Just to make things clear: If you can then just have another spare HDD for experimenting: install there a clean system whcih has nothing than OS itself and the system drivers for video and soundcard and then install MT2.6.1. Someone is using that exact same system chipset (Intel G31) with WIN98SE too. So it can work in this case for madtracking. Smile does it crash then too?

And again, it can be new, but the machine just have to be compatible. Dont trust blindly the support and drivers versions you get along with computer. Neither you cant trust the "newest is best" slogan.

It can work on quite severe extreme configuration actually:
my current system for Madtracker 2.6.1 is
Pentium 4 3.4GHz CPU with singel core, Abit AS8 motherboard,
1GB RAM DDR400Mhz.
Nvidia 6200 series graphics,
M-audio DELTA 1010 LT soundcard,
Realtek gigabit ethernet,
old Soundblaster 1024,
MOTU MIDI Express XT.
Adaptec 19160 SCSI controller with 73GB SCSI disc.
Operative system: WIN98SE with several unofficial upgrades found on internet. So far I know no-one who can make old system to work on such new modern system from the beginning. Wink

The motherboard, soundcards and graphic cards have been chosen compatibility in my mind only and not becouse of the power. Have tried also better faster cards, but if it creates conflicts -- I leave it aside and continue with that one which was working in harmony with the rest of the system. That is all what counts - that they support WIN98SE and software does not hang up with configuration. I had tested several items which work or not. ATI videocard I had in the beginning and it created compatibility issues with SCSI card. All fine with Nvidia though. Wink
. With IDE or SATA harddiscs the motherboard works fine too and I have tried it, but I prefer SCSI for CPU load and speed.

But I have in mind that no gaming on this computer, only audio editing and recording software besides MT2.

And surprising enough, under windows XP it has more than enough problems and incompatibility issues. Especially SCSI controllers and discs seems to dislike WINDOWS XP as they are slower then.


Besides, under the dos I can play FT2 on that so that it has digital output, becouse thats the only PCI version of Soundblaster which has drivers for DOS, though it does not recognize MIDI port. Smile

Renoise I dont use becouse of their incompatibility issues and their arrogant attitude what they support or not among windows versions. THey had neither MIDI export support in their version (or it was do-it-yourself back then) and they had several instability issues back then when I tried that at the same time with MadTracker.

So, make notes about the tips in the list and try at first the different AC97 drivers. then that clear install on spare HDD... try. And please write how it goes and did you got it in working order.
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Serdin
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Joined: 04 Jul 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08 2012 14:37    
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Thanks for the advice, i will try to see if i can change memory speed in the bios,and to try the other(older)drives for soundcard. Im not very good with computer building or changing the parts, only tried it maybe 2 times(hard drive and ram card)...

The old computer (dell, dont remember the name but it was cheap), it just got slower all the time, untill i had to wait more then 5 minutes to start it and to load windows etc.... I tried to clean it so t just had a few music programs and MT2 left, but i couldnt get it faster again, reigster cleaners and stuff like that did not worked. Wanted to try re installing windows, but i had no disks of it. It did work but just really slow. But then (i think almost a year ago now) it just didnt start up again, only the bios screen and then nothing, just the black screen forever. When i got it to the computer repairs shop, they said it would cost probably more then 150 euros, so i just thought to get a new one, because it will be faster, and the same price for it.... And that was a bad idea.. :/

I will try your tips on this computer, and if it doesnt work i will try to trade it for another one i think, there has to be a computer that can run MT2.... Renoise isnt really bad but i still cant get used to it, all the time trying to do things like i did in MT i could just have to actually make music with MT. And the effects are really bad compared to mt ones which i love... So i will keep trying, thanks for trying to help with it Smile
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SX001
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08 2012 15:52    
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I just choose separate expansion boards and make a customized way my computers and there is really nothing special in it. Works the same way as Dells and others if just have tried out several separate expansion cards. So there is argument to get a big case and motherboards with 4..6 expansion slots on it and so less as possible integrated components on it.

If you cant install hardware or software then its quite worse. THe best buddy in this case are only those neighbours who still think that even 4 years old computer is a machine.

Serdin wrote:
Wanted to try re installing windows, but i had no disks of it. It did work but just really slow. But then (i think almost a year ago now) it just didnt start up again, only the bios screen and then nothing, just the black screen forever. When i got it to the computer repairs shop, they said it would cost probably more then 150 euros, so i just thought to get a new one, because it will be faster, and the same price for it.... And that was a bad idea.. :/


thats classical. They try to sell new computers instead even if old computer might still work AND customer only wants just ONE thing to be fixed on a 5 year old system. If all would work as they dream then you come back and swap out the entire system every year and they (windows manufacturer and hardware manufacturer) invent all kind of tricks for this like new products which have incompatibility with existing software-hardware combination system, components which have out-of-support-timers in it (as HP did in his toner cartridges!), poor manufacturing. Its all in order to not let you other options than only those which they are interested.
Actually thats why I dealed since 1996 so much as I could with computer hardware and programming -- not to be included in huge software industry, but to keep my own system under the control and help surroundings who want still use old functioning system. I know that I am not the only one, becouse otherwise there would not exist users who still use WIN98SE (made 1998) on a 2012 year computer. But hey, its not the question of costs, but becouse I never accept their dishonest and sneaky way they do things.
I dont want to trash things which work and buy new becouse industry wants that.

Couple months ago my neighbour asked help with his Pentium 4 2.4GHz and the problem was that the computer shop said "no they cant fix it becouse its too old Wink (well, 5 years too old?)". The only thing it needed was to swap out failed harddisk and he is not gaming and really satisfied with it and no need for better system (also older people react nervously if we change something every year). Harddisks are too freely available everywhere, but computer store just denied to service customer!
Without my help the neighbour would have no other option than to just buy another computer.


Always, ALWAYS keep the driver disks AND installdisks. Also make backup-copy of them which you keep in separate place! Dont rely on option that you can find them from internet. If not having these DRIVER DISKS included when getting computer, always ask them. Just pure driver discs which come with machine itself. Without them You will get a problem!
Be never satisfied with clarification "these drivers are included on the windows installdisk here". Becouse if you get problem, then the only solution is re-installing again the whole system and reformatting the whole harddisk (meaning- all data is deleted).

ABout your old computer problem. Perhaps its propably so that BIOS battery empty (yes they have batteries inside).
The BIOS battery type is CR2032 button cell battery. Try swapping it.

Also why computer got too slow might be worms which arent recognized by virus programs etc. (The virus protection program does never give warranty that you are free of viruses).

Actually its not so hard to getting started learning hardware and understanding how it works. The biggest barrier is "I dont deal with that" attitude which leads to "I dont want to _learn_ that". But it will be awarding in the long run that You are not dependant on computer stores and services -- You can use the system even if they dont "support" it.

Try at first those new tips.
AND AT LAST... perhaps its time to get used working with computer while case is opened? Smile Thats entirely normal when experimenting and repairing, fixing, tweaking.
perhaps its also better to get a separate harddisk for old computer and those arent so expensive (6..10 GB is more than enough for this kind of experimenting).

I can guide you on what you need to research and try after you have tried out that BIOS battery change and so, but the first thing is that You must have atleast will to learn those things. And I demand just one thing in return when you get experience -- if someone asks help in such hardware related problem then You help him and only with demand that he will help others.
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Stufe_7
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11 2012 22:16    
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There is still the alternative to work with Mad Tracker in Rewire-Mode which is what i do and having it linked to Renoise is still a very powerful environment. Smile
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