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 Madtracker as retro music tool for now?
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How many hardware synths you use in MT2 arrangement?
 33%  [ 1 ]
 0%  [ 0 ]
 33%  [ 1 ]
 0%  [ 0 ]
 33%  [ 1 ]
more than 6
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 3

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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23 2016 14:20    
Madtracker as retro music tool for now?
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I have been 10 years in MadTracker Forum. Some thoughts....

There are some people who say "IT IS JUST A TOOL", and so if it is tool for which You paid for then You longer you use it, the more You get from it. There is only advantage of using on the system which You have worked with and learned to know. No shame in it if it is 1..5..10..15 year old everything. The hype about "updates and upgrades" is just a big corporations greed to grab your money and to keep things under the way THEY want. Well, it does not include small programs like MT2.6.1 but it is more about the winblows*it.
I use MT2.6.1 becouse it has support for older platform, is much more reliable and flexible than Renoise, Reason.
There are only couple bugs and things which I hope to get fixed...

There are many many several programs we still love to use
on occassion and/or everyday usage, and it does not matter that it is no longer developed on.

How many of us uses it? On which configuration?

I use for this a machine which I bought on 2006 and I keep it in trimmed configuration for Madtracker 2.6.1. I dont change anything in this machine, except perhaps some hardware, but the OS will be the same for MT2 and sequencers shake.
WIN98SE with non-official support pack (so I can use 1GB RAM) which is shared along with Cubase VST32 (I use it even now).

128GB SSD,
3.4GHz Pentium 4 Level 2 2MBcache
Gigabit ethernet
M-audio Delta 1010LT
Soundblaster Live (mainly for SPDIF output use)
MOTU Midi Express XT (possibility for MIDI time code)

My typical arrangement consists of some hardware synths where I choose which synth I use for this and that tune, plus also racksynths, and external effect units.
Basically for reverb I like to create extra send channel through external Behringer V-VERB rack becouse it is much smoother than VST reverbs.
Of course in this case it is all mixed with external mixer.
So the computer soundcard is just for samples and (if any) VSTs.
It needs 5..6 MIDI channels, and 2..3 stereo output pairs on soundcard.

It is becouse I want to keep control over the things I use, and then it comes that how it sounds.

Well. I think soon I will post some videos and process about this vintage/retro arranging with synthesizers.

Which kind of external hardware You use, or what kind of out of common configurations are in Your creative work?
And what are Your thoughts who have been 10 years with it?
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Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18 2017 19:13    
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I still didnt manage to get real equipment. Therefore I use Madtracker only and VSTis Smile

Madtracker-Tutorial - Personal Releases
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19 2017 02:16    
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BeatMax wrote:
I still didnt manage to get real equipment. Therefore I use Madtracker only and VSTis Smile

Good IF it works for You...
Here are some other thoughts... from another side of MT2 half part time user and I am lucky to avoid all that vicious forced upgrades in that WinTel cycle (my newest machine is from 2005 and happy with that and so I conclude end to my computer purchases). The key to keep costs low is to KEEP the old machines and to get familiar with Norton GHOST 7.0 software package to make backups and images of the hdd partitions.

There is a reason why I bought the hardware synthesizers
-- to get rid of the outrageous software developers terror for forced "upgrade" platform changes and planned obsolence, BECOUSE the hardware ages much better than VSTs and its software and to my surprise has less hassle, but in that analog studio and "wall of knobs" only one weak point is -- the computer itself.
I did not took that MT2 in use when it came out, since it had its flaws, among them that it required windows95 or 98! But that winshit95/98 on those days machines was slow even at the 400Mhz Pentium!! (Hey! Compared to that the Win3x already at a 100Mhz machine was a real rocket and after that comparison I did not installed that win98se again until 2005 when the CPU speed increased to 3Ghz! I had under DOS even a video player and CD recording software with SCSI recorder! )
In fact the MT2 never worked fine with hardware synthesizers and I had to find work-arounds for various bugs which kept me arranging my music with MT2.
But with FT2 under the DOS I could use my hardware synths via MIDI port atleast. But the search for ultimate tracker was still actual -- and which worked of course under win98se (while still running 1GB RAM and Pentium 4). In time I found all those workarounds for MT2, while all my pleads for fixing those bugs were ignored!!
I hate that M$ winshit. I used the DOS+W3.x combination until 2005 as I had most the programs for this (even the CD recording and video player!).

I bought and hoardded synthesizers between 2006-2008 and not minding that it sometimes grabbed half of my salary. In which I do not regret that in the past. Even then the people already cried in feebay that the synths are overpriced and now they are even more expensive.
But to me the cry and trouble is when it comes to software.

I see that everything is real, the trouble is the everchanging vicious software forced "upgrade" cycle which comes from customer-abusive corporations and has also infected the small individual developers, but also the customers.
The trouble is that all this huge corporations mentality is infecting even the small individual developers but also the customers who have lost sense what update means and its historical background. Since when it is normal to ship buggy, not throughly tested and not ready software...??
In big corporations is about money, every action is in thought for selling and everything is made in order to pump more money from the pockets from a customer who never gets the solution to last for decades. For pleasure or business. does not matter to them. Software is not made to be perfect, it is only made for sale but never fully satisfactory. No one would understand if it is for pleasure or have lost the sense for it as they praise money as the only pleasure and music and programming is just a tool for that falsegod - money.
I love all this music arranging and I have never made any penny out of it. Wink But this sort of attitude does not fit in the "software industry". They do not understand the NEEDS. All to them is "want have".
About small developers nowadays ... -- if some new trackers chip tune editors are made then they say "you must have this latest M$ winshit platform. You cant run it on a 5..9 year old platform". But why to force such requirement if that new platform gets "outdated" too? And why if the chip tune editors have not entire army building their software, neither it has 10000000 "customers"? If I am developing something then I make it to USE it and not to "update" it all the time and going for a newer and newer platform.
I made also my OWN PROGRAMS. So, for what platform? I chose the DOS. When I made expansion cards then I chose ISA bus (cheaper components and takes less time to assemble) -- resulting in a several custom EPROM programmer where in otherwords it would be expensive and demanding for newest platform ($$$$$ and all hype), it is also 64 channel I/O analyzer, 8 port COVOX (modplay can use 4 channels as DACs Smile ). Which in result made the 486 with DOS very practical for its 21 year age.
WHY? Becouse there is no point to make it compliant with the latest M$ platform since their platform changes and "upgrades" render my software useless again soon. So better to have it on a more oldfashioned already established way and no problem if it gets outdated nor needs something to change.

Trouble with programs ...
If it works and is robust, then it is limited (DOS and FT2 which has 1 midi port only and 1 pair stereo output soundcard). However, it allowed me to stick with FT2 and I used the hardware synths via MIDI port. Still, I missed the multiple midi port output capability and the platform must be comfortable with no hardcoded colors.

While it comes to winshit then it is uncomfortable, alienating, impractical and with its every second year need-to-update inforcements destroys the established workflow which means that those modern winshit platforms are somewhat use only for web surfing and for people with no habit for arranging files and using customization. Hey, norton commander alike tools are still what I use, and I hate that hardcoded white background and inforced "mydocuments" shitty things directories which have no use to me!!!!!!!!!!!

Trouble with hardware...
The USB soundcards wont. Especially if there are multiple of them.
Also, with EVERY new migration there are troubles! Something does not work with new hardware or some old programs does not work:
When moving to some other platform or a newer one then they have no drivers, nor there is no slot for it. Just becouse they "do not support" or "not yet supported" or buggy ones.
The MOTU XT LPT port version has some issues when I have heavy traffic with Cubase. Then I got the little bit newer MOTU XT USB version which is quite first one. Then that one works okay with Cubase but occassionally freezes with Madtracker, and the trouble -- the sysex dumps do not work!
The newest USB MOTU version however does not have drivers for this platform which I use and so it has no use.

About programs...
How many programs like MT2 have been abandoned this way? With some implementations half-working, and incompatible software with crashes and incompatible midi interfaces?

Several years, 10, passed.
Some years ago the trouble was that their applications render the platform too old, but now these newest M$ platforms have dropped the support for LPT port (so, I cant use the MOTU XT MIDI 8x8 interface), neither the machines have enough PCI slots nor working drivers for those platforms (so I cant use my expensive expansion cards I have!).
There were already 64bit VST hosts. MT2 has skipped fortunately this VST2, VST3 and VST4 (if it is already) incompatibility issues. Becouse no updates at all. How fortunate on the other way.

and result -- need to have several several different machines in order to keep running my old pets and music software.
for 29 hardware synthesizers it is okay to run FastTracker or MadTracker.

So far only one thing says that "use atleast this ...platform". All which require "newer" things and are somewhat related to money I say like dutch "cannot open it, send it in a more readable format".

Hey, the people still play on those things like Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum and are making the new clones with far more higher capabilities than the original models. To my surprise I discovered that there are also those "speccy" models with built in IRC! and thus the ethernet support!!!
I imagine... so, I can make the hardware, everything from the scratch, PCB fabricating included, also it is possible to customize to add several audio output ports and inputs, but also the MIDI. I see no obstacle why there would not have been already a multichannel tracker with multi audio channel outputs, each 24bit and multiple MIDI I/O ports (lets say 16), when obtaining the software and schematic everyone can build himself if capable of doing it, but atleast there is no dependency of these greedy-needy corporations with their demands since everything can be done personally and folklore itself standardizes!
Going to that architecture would be like declaring the independence.
That would perhaps solve the major problem, since with PC the trouble still remains that the boards are difficult to get. But one thing is for sure -- to make anything in hardware or software for a latest PC platform is impractical, becouse when program bugs are ironed out then it is obsolete already -- just becouse the intel and M$!! They are making small developers efforts counterproductive and rendering obsolete, thus making the personal expansion card development pointless for such new platforms.

(Ex software developer during 2000-2006.)
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