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Eternal Engine
Registered User
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
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 Posted: Sun Aug 08 2004 18:38
New irc minicompo. |
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Hello everybody,
In my spare time I've thought of the new kind of irc compo. I think you'll be interested. The rules are as follows:
Each competitor enters the compo with his own sample pack saved as complete mt2 file as .rar archive. The archive must be 400000-500000 bytees in size, no less and no more. It must contain not more than 10 instruments. Using loops is prohibited. The file must have the name consisting of 10-digit random number. MT2-file must be called just as the .rar archive. There can't be any notes of the author of this pack. But by his own will competitor can include into the pack the small .rar-archive with password, and they can put text file with his nickname into this archive.
All competitors must be on the irc channel 10 minutes before beginning of the compo. They can choose 2 people who will be calculating the final marks of the works.
At the compo start one of the people calculating the marks, as example, the one who will be chosen first, must say on irc the phrase "Compo started" in the right time, that all the competitors can synchronize the clocks of their computers. From this moment, not earlier and not later, all the competitors begin to upload their samplepacks into the same directory specially prepared on some ftp-server.
Then all the competitors check their ftp-managers that all the files for them will be sorted by name. That is, the first file in the list must be the file with the least number, and the last one - with the biggest number.
After checking by the number of files that all the competitors have uploaded their samplepacks on the ftp server the competitors choose in the list the file that is one position lower the one they brought to the compo, download it and begin to work with it. The competitor with the biggest number takes the first samplepack.
I thought a lot about how to make the compo anonymous without external judgement. Plus that each will take the samplepack brought by the other person and can't or almost can't prepare his work before the compo start. This scheme is practically ideal. 
The sample in samplepacks can only be tuned to other notes and be looped differently. One can't resample mono samples to stereo ones, recompute the sounds or replace/add own sounds to the sample pack. If the abovementioned is done by somebody, his work will be disqualified.
The compo duration is 2 hours, including uploading and choosing the sample pack, writing the music using this sample pack and uploading the result onto the ftp.
Persons who will be more 10 minutes late to send the sample pack after the compo start will be disqualified. But I think, this case is very rare. 10 minutes must be enough even for 14400bps speed.
Persons who will be less than 5 minutes late to send the resulting music are disqualified according to the results of voting of competitors. Persons who will be more than 5 minutes late in sending the resulting music are disqualified in any case. If someone is less than 5 minutes late he tells his nickname to all the competitors after uploading his music onto the ftp and says that he is less than 5 minutes late. After that all competitors must send through irc their opinion "disqualify" or "not disqualify" to the compo announcer. After that the announcer must announce like this - "7 vs 5 for disqualification. By the most of votes the member xxxxxx is disqualified for being late". If votes are equal the member isn't disqualified.
The person announcing the compo must be the most accurate and not to be late. At the compo end he must save the compo catalogue to the text file or using the PrintScreen button as a picture, for acknowledge exactly what works are ready up to the compo end. The same can be done as needed yet another time after 5 minutes if the persons less than 5 minutes late will exist.
Disqualified members can't take part in results voting. Their works will not be posted. But if late members can finish their compos at least during the voting their works will posted with other works but noted as disqualified and won't have any marks.
The results can be written, as example, with these names: "7643572365_music.rar". That is, the name of used sample pack and the word telling that this is a finished composition created using the mentioned sample pack.
The time for estimating the works counts in minutes which equals 5 multiplied by the number of works ready at the compo end minus 2. This time and the list of works sent in time is announced just after the end of work accepting, before the start of voting, by the person announcing the compo start. The marks are set by competitors themselves. Each competitor votes for any work except his one and the work created by his sample pack.
The works are estimated by 2 categories. The first mark is the overall mark of music and the second mark is the mark of sample pack.
The mark can be from 0 to 100.
The marks of competitors which weren't able to estimate all the works for the needed time aren't accepted.
After setting the marks each competitor must upload to the ftp the file with the name beginning with the number of his music work (not sample pack) and the additional word "_result". As example, "2397842372_result.txt". This file must contain the marks of the works in the following form:
filename: tune samplepack
9237869487_music.rar 74 55
1278364823_music.rar 85 94
2378468223_music.rar 28 42
e.t.c.
To estimating the works and sample packs use the following criteria:
100 Super
90 excellent
80 very good
70 good
60 not so good, but not bad.
50 average
40 can be better
30 bad
20 very bad
10 antimusic
00 haven't heard anything worse in all my life
In the rest half an hours 2 chosen persons calculate the final marks and announce results. All the competitors must write them private message about what sample pack they brought and what sample pack they work with. The marks are calculated using the formula y/x where y is the sum of all the marks for this work and x is the number of these marks. The result is rounded up to the 0.01.
After finishing the calculations the members calculating the marks exchange the calculation results and compare them. If some marks don't match these marks are recalculated until the resuts will be the same. After that the file "compo_results.txt" containig the compo resuts us uploading to the ftp.
The format of this file is as follows:
Tune places:
1. Sunbuster/VFGDFG - Red Skyes - 4612376451_music.rar 75.25
2. Meelina/ZetesisAA - Deep in Ocean - 2234234551_music.rar 73.67
e.t.c.
Sample Pack places:
1. C-Frog - 9234791223.rar 81.50 (5)
2. Toffe - 4182378273.rar 77.16 (3)
e.t.c.
In tune places the first is written the author of melody's nickname, then the author of sample pack's nickname, then the name of composition, and then the filename.
In sample packs places the first is the author of sample pack's nickname, then the name of the file of the sample pack, then (in parentheses) the place of the melody written using this sample pack.
The compo can be attended as example each Friday from 20:00 to around 23:00 of central european time on the MadTracker irc channel.
This compo is suitable because it won't take too much time from the competitors, and therefore more competitors can attend this compo. As I understand most tracker-writers study or work and not always can find the spare time to
attend the long compos. At the other hand the newbies won't pass through because 2 hours is quite a hard limit, therefore only the experiened people can create in this time something which can be shown to the public. This can be reflected positively on the compositions.
Also this compo is suitable because the competitors each time can improvise using the sampes created by other people. And each time there will be many different works.
In addition I'd like to wish the competitors to choose different sounds each time when creating the sample packs.
I think the problem with ftp for this competition can be solved by Yannick. Plus I'd like to know his opinion on this compo.
Also I'd like to note that for avoiding cheating the ftp (if this is possible) must be configured that compo directory will be opened only for competitors and the files in this directory can't be changed/erased/renamed.
If you like this competition it's possible that I'll be frequent memeber of it and I'd be glad to see the following people on it: Sunbuster, Inge, ZetesisAA, Toffe, VFGDFG, Lonestar, Enigmatic, TNK, Miztique, C-Frog, Feeble Brain, BeatMax and all other cool dudes of MadTracker gathering.
You are welcome to comment and make suggestions if you have any. But try to be short and informative, because I don't know English well and can answer frequently and many.
Big thanks to my friends who helped to translate this text.
Best regards,
Eternal Engine. |
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LoneStar
Registered User
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Location: Somewhere in Germany
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Posted: Sun Aug 08 2004 19:14
OH MY HOLY MUDDAFUGGIN GOD |
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Erm....
This is both the most thought-through and complicated compo system I've stumbled across so far...
...which is EXACTLY what will keep people from joining it.
I really appreciate all the sweat and time you invested into this, but face it: hardly any people will enter such a complicated compo. Quick and simple fun is what minicompos are about, and you got the perfect counterpart to that.
You got some really nice ideas in there, I especially like the samplepack complex, but I just can't help it thinking that most of all people will think "AWWW this is way too complicated".
Sorry that I don't write more now, but I got tired by reading through the whole 
Greetz
LoneStar
P.S. of course I'm just expressing my opinion/senses here, correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Silas Rye
Registered User
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Location: South Carolina, USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 08 2004 20:34
yes, too long |
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its kinda funny, i started reading with intrest, and then after 1 paragraph i was like "lets scroll down and see what others say" and then i realised how long the post was. sorry, my attention span is to short for this. |
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Sunbuster
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
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Posted: Sun Aug 08 2004 20:48
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First of, kudos for wanting to revive the mini-compos 
Next then, I'm sorry but like LoneStar said it sounds too complicated for a mini-compo. Mini-compos should be something you jump into in the spur of the friday night drunk moment, without having to read two pages of rules first 
However, I like the idea of using other peoples sample packs. I also like the idea of nobody knowing who's samples they're working with. The 2h timelimit seems fine to me also, but the disqualification rules are a bit over the top. Some limits are of course needed, but no need to be that strict. Think it's enough that the one who leads the compo just uses some common sense and makes the call himself.
Overall, your essay has some good points, but it needs to be less complicated. So lets work on that I'll think it through and get back tomorrow |
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Factor
Registered User
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
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Posted: Sun Aug 08 2004 20:56
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I'm real sorry to say, but I have to agree with Lonestar here (damm you LS    )
anyway, it's far to complicated, and I must tell you. reading those rules feels like reading a book with no chapters in it. And to be honest I was totaly lost even before I was halfway.
Since your trying to make an Irc compo, it's even a bigger problem because people will having major discusions about your rules because half of them wouldn't get them, slowing the hole compo down.
What I've read (and understand) sounds ok, but I'm not here to judge your ideas, which would suerly be great (maybe it's even hard for you (like many) to type out your ideas from out your head into writing, beleave me I have that many times as well
Just try to athleast make the lay out of your post a bit, ehmm more easy to read, make headlines and stuff, now it's a long text, that would have many people lose intrest just reading it.
Don't get me wrong here, I encourage all atempts for such great events, but I think you made it to advanced.
To all that do understand the rules and want to give it a go, have fun and good luck
Factor |
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CHICAGO¤lollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Mon Aug 09 2004 10:13
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Whoa... Agreeing with "Option D" here (All Of The Above), it's a great idea, but it's just far too complicated, and I'm speaking as someone who's never participated in a IRC mini-compo before.
From what I've understood, there's one samplepack, people can download it before the compo, but it's password protected, so when the "get tracking!" message is posted, so is the password to the samplepack, then they've all got 2 hours to unlock the pack, track their track, and upload it again.
Much, much simpler. Nice try though.
Sunbuster: 3Ľ pages, actually. |
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mikx
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Mon Aug 09 2004 12:15
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that has to be the record for longest post ever on this forum, surely! |
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CHICAGO¤lollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Mon Aug 09 2004 12:43
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There's a record?
Why didn't anyone say something?! I would've tried a lot harder to ramble on, then my post count might actually mean something!
Certainly a long post if there's ever been one |
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Jesse Moore
Registered User
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: Tipp City, Ohio, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 09 2004 21:09
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not sure. I thought TNK or enonimis or someone had a long post that got deleted didnt they? |
"The world would be a dull place if there were no Idealists" |
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CHICAGO¤lollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 10 2004 01:38
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Points to Enonimis for long posts that get deleted. (Shakespeare and swiss cheese, anyone? ) |
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Jesse Moore
Registered User
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: Tipp City, Ohio, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 10 2004 03:42
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| CHICAGO¤lollie wrote: |
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Points to Enonimis for long posts that get deleted. (Shakespeare and swiss cheese, anyone? )
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ahh never saw the post, personally. I do, however, remember the comments about the relevance of shakespeare and swiss cheese. I guess enon holds the record for longest-off-topic-promptly-deleted-due-to-length-posts (enon is now refered to as L.O.T.P.D.T.L.P. when referring directly to enon the p stands for POSTer.) and I am guessing TNK holds the record for longest on topic posts?
Edit:
or does the L.O.T.P. title switch from TNK to Eternal Engine now? |
"The world would be a dull place if there were no Idealists" |
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Sunbuster
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Aug 10 2004 07:24
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| Jesse Moore wrote: |
or does the L.O.T.P. title switch from TNK to Eternal Engine now?
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I think the battle is still on
I still like the idea of every participant sending a sample pack, that others have to use. The packs could be password protected, so everyone could download in their own time (like before). That of course means either everyone has to download all packs, or it has to be decided in advanced who gets which pack... |
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Eternal Engine
Registered User
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 10 2004 09:08
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As I think these rules are not complex. They're just accurately written because I tried to count all the cases. And I'd say that this is not a compo but more like a game. The game for non-ordinary people who can, as example, in this Friday evening go to play preference in friendly company. Are the preferance rules complex, what do you think? They are more complex than that of this compo... The difference is only that we haven't to write music at preferance. Additionally, not like usual compos, this compo is absolutely self-complete and requires nothing except competitors. But I think that for others it can be the good show.
I'm glad that Sunbuster likes the rules in general because I created them for such persons. If we had at least 3 additional constant competitors of this level, as example, VFGDFG, ZetesisAA and Toffe, we'll undoubtely have not dull Friday evening.
In my opinion, I don't like the variant with 1 sample pack and password. I'm sorry, but this is boring.
By the way, this week we have Friday the 13th. Hehehe...  Who else wants to play with us?
PS. Read the rules closely and think of them. They aren't complex...
| Sunbuster wrote: |
| Jesse Moore wrote: |
or does the L.O.T.P. title switch from TNK to Eternal Engine now?
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I think the battle is still on
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| Sunbuster wrote: |
I still like the idea of every participant sending a sample pack, that others have to use. The packs could be password protected, so everyone could download in their own time (like before). That of course means either everyone has to download all packs, or it has to be decided in advanced who gets which pack...
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As I think the passwords are not needed. I think my scheme if
distribution is ideal and doesn't require any changes and additions.
| Factor wrote: |
What I've read (and understand) sounds ok, but I'm not here to judge your ideas, which would suerly be great (maybe it's even hard for you (like many) to type out your ideas from out your head into writing, beleave me I have that many times as well
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Man, i like your big and cold brain, and want to eat it, with help of my big and complicated compo rules.  |
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CHICAGO¤lollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 10 2004 11:11
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| Eternal Engine wrote: |
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PS. Read the rules closely and think of them. They aren't complex...
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I had Word on 200%, `cause my res is so high. Close enough?
| Eternal Engine wrote: |
| Sunbuster wrote: |
I still like the idea of every participant sending a sample pack, that others have to use. The packs could be password protected, so everyone could download in their own time (like before). That of course means either everyone has to download all packs, or it has to be decided in advanced who gets which pack...
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As I think the passwords are not needed. I think my scheme if
distribution is ideal and doesn't require any changes and additions.
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But if that's the case, then anyone could download the samplepacks and spend time beforehand on their entry. With some simple before-hand thinking (Ie: Changing the time and date of their clocks to a few minutes after the starting time, that of which would be announced for the compo to go smoothly, then working on the entry before the starting time, and saving before uploading), the entry could be finished with the appearance of meeting basic rules, and reviewers would most likely be none the wiser, thus an illegal entry would come about.
Of course, the location to these samplepacks would need to be provided for that to happen, but it is something you have to take into consideration. |
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Inge
Man-At-Arms
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
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Posted: Tue Aug 10 2004 11:13
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Man. With a post-holiday fever, I will *not* read through this entire post. Just summarize once everything is crystallised into concrete ideas
Inge (back. yes. be afraid.) |
Care for a game of Monopoly? |
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