MadTracker - Forum - mastering tips?

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bigandymac
Registered User

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Leeds UK

Posted: Mon Oct 17 2005 22:20 mastering tips?
Hi peeps Does anyone have any tips on mastering inside madtracker. the mastering phase is a real problem for me and i know there must be a wealth of knowledge amongst madtracker producers maybe even a tutorial? cheers andy

Atlantis
User

Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Posted: Wed Oct 19 2005 03:49
As no one has answered here yet, I thought I might jump in and say that MadTracker isn't a mastering application, and that mastering should rather be left to a dedicated audio editor. Mastering is about treating the final, rendered output of your sequencer (in this case MadTracker), why you need a full overview of the waveform so that you can quickly access any part of the file, apply de-clicking, perform spectrum analyses, apply effects, dithering etc. MadTracker can be used as a mixing application, where you apply effects to the individual instruments, but mastering is something that ideally needs to be done at a higher level, i.e. rendering the output of your sequencer, then processing the file with mastering effects in an audio editor such as Sound Forge. Another reason mastering should be left to an external application is that a good mastering chain can easily max out any CPU, and if your CPU usage is already high during mixing, you're clearly going to run into problems adding additional mastering effects. To give you some tips though, first you'll generally want to correct the frequency balance by using corrective EQ, including wide EQ boost and cuts to bring out certain frequency ranges or to reduce buildup in other ranges. Correct the tonal balance so that it sounds flat when played on studio monitors, and so it more or less matches that of commercial music. Next, apply stereo imaging to optimise the width, if possible using a multiband stereo imager, which usually involves opening the top-end up, as higher frequencies can tolerate more widening than bass frequencies. Then, it's on to compressing the dynamics, which you ideally want to do using a multiband compressor. As I posted on another forum recently, the trick is to not only tighten the dynamics, but also to properly shape and mold the mix for maximum integrity. Set the individual bands' attack times to smoothen out transients or create a more defined sound (lower or higher, respectively). The release more heavily depends on the material, but lower values suit staccato material, while higher values complement a more legato approach. Just watch out for gain pumping or overshoots. Following EQ correction, stereo imaging and dynamics compression (what I refer to as "corrective effects"), I like to move on to applying "colouration effects", namely shuffling, harmonic excitement, and a slight touch reverb if the mix calls for it. Finally, you can use limiting to raise the volume up to a respectable level, but be sure to use a VU meter and your ears when setting the limiter threshold. Of course there's a lot more to it all, but I thought I'd present you with some of the basics, from which you may like to derive your own approach. Keep in mind however that it generally isn't advised to master your own material, as it's not only best left to those who specialise in it, but also left to an additional, objective set of ears. Hope that provides some answers anyway.
Atlantis [Atlantean Records] multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal

Inge
Man-At-Arms

Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland

Posted: Wed Oct 19 2005 08:24
Atlantis: maybe here is a good moment to give access to your in-progress mastering tutorial? From what I read, it certainly is readable and understandable, and it might give valueable feedback for further optimization?
Care for a game of Monopoly?

Franklin van Uden
Registered User

Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

Posted: Wed Oct 19 2005 10:27
Did i hear the word "Mastering-tutorial" ???? GIMME GIMME !!!!! Update: In the meanwhile, there is some mastering tutorial on the web: http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/mastering/mastering1.asp I didn't quite read it all, but seems easy to understand ... Franklin
Music ... is endless ... Work in progress ...

bigandymac
Registered User

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Leeds UK

Posted: Wed Oct 19 2005 17:54
outstanding! Thanks very much for the tips, a tutorial would be awesome as well i think. cheers andy

Martin
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Oct 19 2005 19:06
very informative!
~ http://martin.madtracker.net ~

Atlantis
User

Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Posted: Wed Oct 19 2005 19:18
I was once writing a mastering tutorial, and maybe one day I will finish it, but for the time being I've had to put it on hold due to work and time restrictions. Also, as I started writing it many months ago, I've since refined my techniques and learnt a great deal more that now makes a lot of the information obsolete. I don't intend to revise and update the tutorial any day soon, as I really just need time (perhaps up to a year even) to figure things out and decide on a suitable course of action. I'm also working my way up to becoming a professional mastering engineer, and as much as I'd like to share all the knowledge I've worked so hard for, I have to be reasonable here. I try not to be too arrogant however, and continue to offer mixing advise and mastering tips freely, such as the ones above. When it comes to mastering though, or in fact any production technique, I always find experience to be the best teacher, and that reading the best tutorials isn't going to help you distinguish 0.1 dB deviations, 0.01 ms changes in attack and release times, etc. They may give you ideas, but ultimately the best outcome lies in the many hard years of work you put into it. So get listening...
Atlantis [Atlantean Records] multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal

bigandymac
Registered User

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Leeds UK

Posted: Sat Oct 22 2005 00:16
so ultimately to get the best results for mastering we should pass the task onto a professional? i think thats a good idea, mastering takes a long time when you dont know what youre doing (like me). andy

Sunbuster
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland

Posted: Sat Oct 22 2005 09:23
yeah, but isn't that the case with everything However, you'll never learn if you don't try it yourself. But maybe it's best to practice on someone else's raw mix. If you use your own stuff you'll always find something you want to change in the mix, but if you use someone else's material possible errors in the mix are out of your hands, thus you'll be able to concentrate on practicing what you can do about it through mastering. Which brings me to an idea I just had (while writing that last paragraph). How about people putting up their rawmixes of finished tracks for grabs in the music section? Then others could download them and use them as practice material for mastering. The finished master would be posted also for others to hear and for the original author to use. Benefits would be on both sides I think. The original author would hopefully get a large choice of mastered versions of his track, from which he could choose and use the one he/she thinks is best (with the proper credits ofcourse). The people who want to practice mastering get material to practice on. what do you think?

Atlantis
User

Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Posted: Sat Oct 22 2005 23:42

bigandymac wrote:

so ultimately to get the best results for mastering we should pass the task onto a professional?

I think Sunbuster pretty much hit the nail right on the head. Yes, mastering engineers deal with mastering on a day to day basis, so obviously they're the ones to turn to if you're looking for professional, knowledgeable results. However, it's of course not impossible to achieve very good results yourself (this also highly depends on how you define "good"), although you'll have to be very good at keeping an objective view of your own music, and of course spend a lot of time practising. Exchanging mixes to learn mastering that way or not, the bottom-line is still going to be whether or not it's really worthwhile to master your music. I mean, why do you want to learn mastering? To improve your sound quality? Learn mixing instead!

Mastering is really in a class of its own, and I believe no producer should ever have to worry about it. The reason being that it takes a lot of time (read: years, or a life time) to perfect, which instead could be precious time spent improving your compositional and mixing techniques.

So get mixing! Wink

Atlantis [Atlantean Records]

multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal

Martin
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Oct 23 2005 09:27
Is there any reason why not to use MT as a mastering application if only loading the already rendered wavfile. Like, if I make a song, render it, start a new module, load the wavfile and then apply additional compressing and EQ? Or should it be an entirely different application, if so which one would you recommend - preferably free. Martin
~ http://martin.madtracker.net ~

Franklin van Uden
Registered User

Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

Posted: Sun Oct 23 2005 11:20
So far i've used the following for my mastering "tests" : Har-bal for determening peaks and valleys Soundforge 8.0 with the following VST plugins: - Waves Q10-Paragraphic EQ - Waves LinMB - Waves S1 StereoImager - Waves L2 Limiter - Voxengo GlissEQ (Free) Maybe this is a help, although most of the VST plugins and soundforge by itself are somewhat expencive . Franklin
Music ... is endless ... Work in progress ...

Sunbuster
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun Oct 23 2005 17:32
I recently found a freeware program called Kristal Audio Engine ( http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/ ). I haven't used it that much, but from what I've seen it seems to be pretty solid. It supports ASIO and VST's. Afaik a total of 5 VST's + built in EQ could be applied to a track you want to master. 2 + EQ on each channel + 3 on master output. It's not a wave editor like Cool Edit or Audacity, but for mastering it might work well.

Franklin van Uden
Registered User

Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

Posted: Mon Oct 24 2005 13:14 Kewlsite !!
While googling (as always) i've stumbled on a kewl (mastering studio) site. Over here u can get a FREE trial, they master about 2 a 3 minutes of a send in (FTP) song !!!! Would'nt it be intresting to actual hear the difference between mixed and rendered versus mixed, rendered and professionally mastered ?? .. Anywayz here's the link : http://www.trilliumsound.com/home.htm Have fun ... And don't forget to post the result Franklin P.S. for the free trial , select Mastering Online
Music ... is endless ... Work in progress ...

aRGee
Registered User

Joined: 24 May 2003
Location: Holland

Posted: Mon Oct 24 2005 21:28
Izotope Ozone is a very nice mastering plugin: You can use it as a vst-plugin, so when you apply it to the master-track, you should be able to master your song in madtracker itself. With the demo comes a really nice tutorial which explains the principles of mastering.

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