Martin
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Mon Oct 20 2003 13:56
cut off filtering- difference betw. instrument and realtime |
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Hey all
How does the "cut off" filtering work? I am trying to understand the logic and use of frequency cut off. But something in the program leads me to believe that I havent fully grasped the concept. Here is what puzzles me...
1. I set the (instrument setup) cut off filter for a instrument to say: high pass at 4000 (reso = 0) - I understand this to cut all frequencies below 4000, leaving me with only the sound of frequencies between 4000 - 11000 (the brighter part of the sound)
2. Now if I use this instrument with only note C4 in the pattern editor, and apply aditional filtering with the track effect filter 3 "Hi Pass" shouldnt altering the cut off prequency area between 0-4000 leave the instrument sound unaltered, because this frequencyarea is already precut in the instrument setup? It puzzles me that I can still alter the sound within this area because I would think that there should be no sound at all in this area.
Am I missing something here, and why is the cut off filter in the instrument cut off setup set to vary between 0 - 11000 and the realtime cut off filter 0 - 22000?
Any help, hints, info would be appreciated 
Martin |
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Yannick
MadTracker Author
Joined: 16 Apr 2003
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Tue Oct 21 2003 08:48
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Filters are not perfect (they never are) so they don't block frequencies in an abrupt manner. If you have a hi-pass at 4000Hz, you will still have a little of 3500Hz remaining and the 4000Hz will be slightly boosted (or more if you add resonance).
And it's the same with the track effect. The Filter track effect has no resonance parameter but it still has a little boost at the cutoff frequency.
That's why your sound will always be altered.
Yannick |
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Martin
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 21 2003 11:41
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Thanks Yannick, it just became a little more clear to me! |
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Enonimis
Regular
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Canton Ohio, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22 2003 02:44
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Oh sure, delete my helpful and insightful suggestions, then steal most of them for yourself. Thanks Yannick. Or should I say, Satan? |
If you do not agree with my opinions, you are wrong. If you do agree with my opinions you are drunk.
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http://elrick-enonimis.com
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CHICAGO子ollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Wed Oct 22 2003 07:05
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| Enonimis wrote: |
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Oh sure, delete my helpful and insightful suggestions, then steal most of them for yourself. Thanks Yannick. Or should I say, Satan?
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 lol, aw, poor Enon.
I managed to save the fine print though... Hope the school doesn't delete my account 
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Enonimis
Regular
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Canton Ohio, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22 2003 20:53
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That's great. Maybe someday you'll be able to put a book together called "Quotes of the Great Enonimis, Man, Myth, Legend, Drunkard"
It'll be a hot seller. In fact, I'm sure it would become a common textbook in philosophy classes around the world. I get a 90% cut of the profits. Sorry but that's business.
~Enon |
If you do not agree with my opinions, you are wrong. If you do agree with my opinions you are drunk.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://elrick-enonimis.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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CHICAGO子ollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Wed Oct 22 2003 22:20
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| Enonimis wrote: |
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That's great. Maybe someday you'll be able to put a book together called "Quotes of the Great Enonimis, Man, Myth, Legend, Drunkard"
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Heh, yeah, the title would get everyone's attention
| Enonimis wrote: |
It'll be a hot seller. In fact, I'm sure it would become a common textbook in philosophy classes around the world. I get a 90% cut of the profits. Sorry but that's business.
~Enon
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`Kay
*walks off to another thread to post in, but choosing carefully as he doesn't want to become the top forum poster (he's only one post away from getting in a tie with sunbuster, y`know)* |
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Inge
Man-At-Arms
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
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Posted: Wed Oct 22 2003 22:33
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| CHICAGO子ollie wrote: |
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*walks off to another thread to post in, but choosing carefully as he doesn't want to become the top forum poster (he's only one post away from getting in a tie with sunbuster, y`know)*
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That might be related to posts that say 'okay' or 'that's what I thought' as the only reply You might consider being a bit more selective in your postings concerning how constructive they are. Or not. Reading your posts goes very fast
Inge |
Care for a game of Monopoly? |
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CHICAGO子ollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Wed Oct 22 2003 22:41
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| Inge wrote: |
| CHICAGO子ollie wrote: |
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*walks off to another thread to post in, but choosing carefully as he doesn't want to become the top forum poster (he's only one post away from getting in a tie with sunbuster, y`know)*
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That might be related to posts that say 'okay' or 'that's what I thought' as the only reply You might consider being a bit more selective in your postings concerning how constructive they are. Or not. Reading your posts goes very fast
Inge
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Yeah? Well 
Hehehe... Nah, I think it's only natural that there'll be an obsessive poster on every forum. I just happen to be one of them.
edit: FUG! Sunbuster!! I'm soooooooooo sorry, it bumped me up to top poster! Quick, post something inventive, or constructive, or, er, just post SOMETHING!
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to be treated as a post, preferrably one that doesn't get deleted:
Erm, didn't this all start when Enon's "helpful" suggestion was deleted? |
Last edited by CHICAGO子ollie on Thu Oct 23 2003 11:31; edited 1 time in total |
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Inge
Man-At-Arms
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
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Yannick
MadTracker Author
Joined: 16 Apr 2003
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Thu Oct 23 2003 08:27
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Indeed, I'm getting kinda bored of all these off-topic non-constructive posts there have been posted recently (I wonder why).
So, Inge... do not be afraid to press that little cross button when it's required.
Okay... back to topic now please?
Yannick |
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CHICAGO子ollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Oct 23 2003 22:32
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At least I saw the post...
But yeah, ok, so this cut-off issue, is there a workaround to this?
How about that 08 XXXX thing? I do remember testing that with filters and stuff, and it seemed to cut off more of the frequencies I wanted to remove.
Sorry, early mornings, I'm no good at explaining these things. |
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CHICAGO子ollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Oct 24 2003 00:40
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Right. Ok, I've found some time to explain what I was talking about. I don't have MadTracker with me at the moment (damn school), so just bare with me here.
(I've got a tendency to explain some things as tutorials too, so anyone should understand this providing they know some English )
Say you've got a sample (well duh) that you want to put a fully adjustable bandpass filter effect on.
"Sure, why not just use the 03 Filter track effect? It's got a bandpass preset, lets use that!"
No, that would be the logical way. Besides, it's not fully adjustable, believe it or not.
We're gonna do something a little different.
First, make a duplicate instrument (ie: A new instrument using the same sample and parameters) of the sample you wish to use.
Copy the track containing the notes for this sample over to another (preferably unoccupied) track. If you don't have a track containing notes for this sample, make some.
After you've done this, change the instrument number to that of the duplicate.
Now, on this duplicate track, go to the parameters column and add 08 0300 to each of the notes.
Take a listen. If you cannot hear the sample, don't worry, this is what's supposed to happen. If, however, you do hear the sample, or bits of it, check to see if you've:
A) Entered in all the correct parameters
B) Check if the envelopes are identical (Providing there are envelopes)
C) Typed in 08 0300 in the parameters column for ALL the notes.
Now, the easy bit...
Go into the original instrument's Effect tab (or filter, I can't remember off hand). Set its parameters to:
Cutoff = 11000 (to the max)
Resonance = 128 (to the max) (optional, but preferred)
After this is done, go into the Envelopes tab and click on "Filter". I'm hoping that no filter envelope already resides here. If so, chances are you'll have to delete it (left-click on points, right-click).
Add a single point to the top of the envelope, and close this window.
Do the same for the duplicate instrument and check if both are identical (Play and check for any noise too).
From here, it's onto the automation method! Onwards!!
"Can I get myself a pizza?"
No.
"Drat..."
First off, click on the automation button. This is essential.
"I could really go for a pizza..."
I said no.
Click on the track number which contains the original sample and click on "Instrument Cutoff"
Just put a single point there and change it to 2000 or something, it doesn't matter.
Now, goto the duplicate track number.
"Hey! Who wants pizza?"
No one! Sheesh!
Ok, again, click on "Instrument Cutoff" and add a single point.
Make this one 3500, or something at least 1000 highter than the original track.
Now give it a test play, and tada!
We have a manual bandpass filter.
If that doesn't work, correct me where I'm wrong. Remember, I didn't have MadTracker with me at the time of making this "tutorial".
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CHICAGO子ollie
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Oct 24 2003 10:28
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I just tested the method to be sure. It works
You don't even have to make a duplicate instrument, just a track
And the method doesn't take as long to set up as it seems |
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Sunbuster
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
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Posted: Sat Oct 25 2003 10:14
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sounds cool, I'll have to try that when I get a chance. Don't have a working copy of MT installed right now so... (don't have a working OS atm either  ) anyway, does this method allow you to set the width of the bandpass? Because that's really the only thing I miss about the track fx version of the bandpass  |
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cut off filtering- difference betw. instrument and realtime
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That should do the trick, I guess