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Inge
Man-At-Arms


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
PostPosted: Sun May 18 2003 14:56    
Audio cd burning question
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Hi All,

I'm annoyed. Today I was busy burning a number of mp3's that together formed a mix. The problem was that every mp3 started with 0,5 second silence, so that the whole cd now has these annoying silence parts between the tracks. It would take too much time to decode every mp3 to wave, cut away all silences, re-save them to wave, and then burn the album (without even knowing if the mix is going smoothly then).

What I need is a program (like the multitrack editor in Cooledit) where my audio files are visualised, where I can drag & drop both mp3's as waves, and where I can insert markers where the next track starts. I also need to be able to listen to it realtime (again, just as the multitrack of Cooledit) to decide if the overlap is good. Which program can you advice me?

Kind regards,
Inge

ps: and while thinking about this, download and listen 'Aphrodite - Karma Sutra (slinky mix)'. The energy and joy of summer & sex, catched in 4 minutes of highly danceable drum 'n bass.


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Enonimis
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Canton Ohio, USA
PostPosted: Sun May 18 2003 15:29    
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Inge, Inge, Inge. Whatever would you do without me? Soundforge 6.0 is perfectly capable of loading, editing, and saving MP3 files. Also, I have no idea what CD burning software you use, but I use Nero Burning ROM and it lets you adjust the beginning and end of each track, as well as adjust the "pause" between tracks (even setting it to zero). Either of these solutions should surely solve your problem.

Best of luck,
~Enon


If you do not agree with my opinions, you are wrong. If you do agree with my opinions you are drunk.
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mikx
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Melbourne
PostPosted: Sun May 18 2003 16:44    
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haha
enonimis took the words out of my fingers.. nero is perfect for this kind of stuff, but speaking of soundforge, there is a plugin called CD Architect for it where you can burn a CD in soundforge. you apply, cut, insert, whatever effects you like as well (other plugins supported) and it just burns it straight onto CD without having to save..

Smile
-mikx
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Inge
Man-At-Arms


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
PostPosted: Sun May 18 2003 19:32    
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A: yes, soundforge can edit mp3's, but hasn't got a visual multitrack interface.
B: nero too hasn't got a multitrack interface.

Qbical once referred to an option in Wavelab 4 for a graphical interface with the possibility to add markers, but I can't seem to find that option.

Thanks so far, but none helped yet Rolling Eyes

Inge


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D Vibe
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Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun May 18 2003 19:35    
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well, you could otherwise always load the mp3 in cooleditpro and then save it as mp3 again directly. It'll not be any difference, because I guess an editor which can edit an mp3 directly will need to encode the whole file again anyway..

/Daniel


http://www.dvibe.se
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Sunbuster
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun May 18 2003 20:08    
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Inge, you're sure this 0.5 second pause between tracks hasn't got anything to do with Disc-at-once being off while you record?
But, like c-frog said, there probably isn't any difference if you open the tracks in CEP and then save them as mp3 again, since the encoding would have to be done again anyway. You could also try the option of making one big file of you tracks, and then make a cue list that's used to get the right tracklenghts when burning.
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Inge
Man-At-Arms


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 00:09    
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a: it's not the disc-at-once feature. Nero is configured to not use a silence between songs.
b: encoding mp3's to wave and back to mp3 will make your sound quality of the final mp3 suffer, since the algorithm of removing certain frequencies will be applied again.
c: there is no need for me to decode the final audio signal that should be burned back to mp3, since my goal is to make an audio-cd.
d: a cue's list? That's the thing I need, I guess. Could someone explain that feature in more detail?

Inge


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Enonimis
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Canton Ohio, USA
PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 02:14    
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mikx wrote:
haha
enonimis took the words out of my fingers.. nero is perfect for this kind of stuff, but speaking of soundforge, there is a plugin called CD Architect for it where you can burn a CD in soundforge. you apply, cut, insert, whatever effects you like as well (other plugins supported) and it just burns it straight onto CD without having to save..

Smile
-mikx


Yes I have the CD Architect plugin for SoundForge, but don't get me wrong, I never use it. I prefer Nero, simply because it's dedicated to burning and well, I've never had a use for it. But anyways, Inge you never did mention whether or not you were able to remedy your problem. How did it turn out?

cheers,
~Enon


If you do not agree with my opinions, you are wrong. If you do agree with my opinions you are drunk.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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QBical
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Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Utrecht , The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 08:34    
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k, wavelab 4 :

File - New - Audio Montage

that's it, your multi track interface, it needs some practice but you can realy do quite ehm like everything in it, after you finished you're mix click the cd tab and burn it baby! Wink

But keep in mind that not all burners support the functions wavelab offers, for example my burner can't burn anything before the first trackmarker thus dissabeling me to make kewl ghosttracks before track 1

Grtz


PC: P4 HT 3ghz, 1gb ram, 500GB+ Storage, plextor DVD-rw, M-audo Audiophile 2496
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Inge
Man-At-Arms


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 11:15    
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Qbical: thanks for you reply. I tried that function, and *once* saw the graphical image with the markers, but I couldnīt find it back since then. When I go to audio montage, all I see are four explorers, but no wave display to be found of the sequential waves. Could you help stupid little me a little bit further? Embarassed

Inge


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Sunbuster
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Joined: 05 May 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 11:41    
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Inge wrote:
a: it's not the disc-at-once feature. Nero is configured to not use a silence between songs.


ok

Inge wrote:

b: encoding mp3's to wave and back to mp3 will make your sound quality of the final mp3 suffer, since the algorithm of removing certain frequencies will be applied again.


true, so don't encode them back to mp3's, leave them as wav Wink

Inge wrote:

c: there is no need for me to decode the final audio signal that should be burned back to mp3, since my goal is to make an audio-cd.


ok

Inge wrote:

d: a cue's list? That's the thing I need, I guess. Could someone explain that feature in more detail?
Inge


I think you'll want to read this: http://www.geocities.com/altbinariessoundsmusicclassical/mp3gaps.html

and this:
http://www.dcsoft.com/cue_mastering_progs.htm

a cue sheet is basically a text file that tells the burner what tracks start at which index, track names and so on.

a simple example, this would be in a file called mycd.cue and would be placed in the same directory as the source file thebesttunesever.mp3:

PERFORMER "Me myself and I"
TITLE "My biggest achievement ever"
FILE "thebesttunesever.mp3" MP3
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "My first track"
PERFORMER "Me myself and I"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "After my weekend"
PERFORMER "Me myself and I"
INDEX 00 06:17:54
INDEX 01 06:19:54
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "My third wonder"
PERFORMER "Me myself and I"
INDEX 01 09:48:45
TRACK 04 AUDIO
TITLE "The last thing"
PERFORMER "Me myself and I"
INDEX 00 15:20:74
INDEX 01 15:22:74

This would create a CD with 4 tracks, no pauses between tracks. The tracks with two index values would have a short period where the cdplayer shows a negative value, before the next tune starts.

But to get back to what I think is your real issue, with the short pause between tracks. I think your basic problem is that each mp3 automatically gets a short piece of silence added to it when it's encoded, read the first link I posted to find out more. So what you have to do is open the files, cut away the silences and then save them all into one file, because if you save them to different files, the silence will be there again. Then use a cue sheet to create the correct indexes.

Alternatively, you save the files separately in wav format after you cut away the silence in the beginning and end, and simply burn them with disc-at-once and no pause between tracks.
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mikx
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Melbourne
PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 12:39    
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Quote:
A: yes, soundforge can edit mp3's, but hasn't got a visual multitrack interface.
B: nero too hasn't got a multitrack interface.



i'm not sure what you mean by visual multitrack interface? you mean like you have multiple wavs at once, like in CEP?

cos if you just want to crop a part of the mp3 or wav you're burning, in nero all you do is right click on the title (in the audio-to-be-burnt window), and select properties, or even easier, double click it, then select "indexes, limits, split" tab and you should see a visual waveform with markers..

Confused
-mikx
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Inge
Man-At-Arms


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
PostPosted: Mon May 19 2003 18:17    
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Mikx: I found that option, but that also re-converts the files to mp3's. Whether that can be disabled or not, the issue remains that it gives me too little control.

Qbical: I'm plain stupid. I thought you referred to another option. I found it, played with it, and it worked like a charm. The crappy-edited mp3's of Adam F's drum & bass warfare are now very fluently written to cd. Thanks!

And ofcourse thanks to all who thought with me, either successful or not Wink

Inge


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BeatMax
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Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri May 23 2003 23:22    
AudioCD_Burning : using the right speed and CD-Rs
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Hi I wonder if there are any advantages of so called audio CD-Rs. Is there really a quality difference (less errors) ? And is there a maximum speed for burning audio files? An issue I am quite unsure with. Any help appreciated.

Regards

BMX


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B E A T M A X
Madtracker-Tutorial - Personal Releases
http://beatmax.madtracker.net
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Sunbuster
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat May 24 2003 09:26    
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From what I've read, to get best quality possible, you should burn at 1x-2x speed. You can of course burn a audio CD at 16x or 24x or higher, but chances are they have tiny errors in them which degrade the quality. Exactly why this is the case I don't remember, but it had something to do with error correction, skipped bits and so on. The slower you burn it, the more likely it is that the burner has time to handle error correction and skipped bits correctly, thus better quality.

If you should use audio specific cd-r medias or not I don't know. But I doubt there's a big difference. I've burnt on both regular CD's and so called audio CD's and I can't find any differences. But then again, that might be because my source material in those cases was of such poor quality Razz
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