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TNK / ATK project
Registered User

Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)

Posted: Fri Sep 29 2006 22:55
Thanks for your tips, especially the link to sweetwater, as the effect described in the post is typical of what happens here (and therefore will be solved soon). There's another interesting ressource I found out in the net, written partly by the one behind the Orban systems used to boost the signal in most commercial radios (so I guess the guy knows what he's speaking off). At the end of the article they say that you should even make 2 distinct mixes, one for the CD and one for the radio. You can read it >>here<< . Besides this I still hope my initial mix will work well on the Speakers that will be used for Boney M's perf...er Playback in Strasbourg on October 15th, as Maryleen will do their 1st part and I had to turn the old mix in for this...
Switzerland : #1 earthquake provider! (Bootyshakin' Willhelm Tell ?!?)

QBical
Registered User

Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Utrecht , The Netherlands

Posted: Sat Sep 30 2006 10:21
Something that you should always have in mind when using eq's intensivly is that the source material could be better. If you recorded something with a mic, then check out different mic placements, or is your high=hat sample to snappy, then try a different sample and stuff. Always make sure you have the best material going into your insert effects. EQ's are rarely needed if you do this, and you will gain a more transparant sound and it's then more easy to mix, master and to listen to. Also, NEVER use an EQ to add frequency's, or maby if you want some effect, because eq's are just all wack. If you lack realy low bass, then instead of just pumping 50Hz up 2 dB's try making a little dip in the higher freq's of the bass ( as in 200 Hz for example ), this prevents clipping and adding all kinds of harmonic stuff the damned EQ adds... Speaking of harmonics, if you have a realy anoying freq, lets say 1Khz, then keep in mind that this freqency will have higher harmonics that will be irritating aswell, these are all octaves of 1Khz. So if you cut 1 Khz but still you can hear something similar anyoning in your sound then try to make a little dip at 2, 4, 8 Khz and so on... As always, and as Andy said, these are just rough guidelines, go with your ears, and just go wild with the buttons to see what they all do Oh and TNK, about the live show, get in touch with the sound guy and have a chat about this problem with him, he'll likely have some hints and tips, and could implement your changes in the new mixed version on his fancy equipment. But generaly live sound and cd/radio/studio sound isn't realy comparable. If you're at a gig the sound is so massive that little mix errors are generaly not hearable Maby you know the effect that when you go to a concert it's all realy great, and then you see a recording of the same concert on TV, and then the mix is wack, the singer is out of tune and stuff like that. So don't worry, it'll be alright
PC: P4 HT 3ghz, 1gb ram, 500GB+ Storage, plextor DVD-rw, M-audo Audiophile 2496 Laptop: Apple Powerbook G4 15inch Other Stuff: Phonic MU802 mixer, Alesis M1 Active Mk2 Monitors, Ipod 2nd gen. 20GB, maxtor firewire HD 80GB Last edited by QBical on Sat Sep 30 2006 10:48; edited 1 time in total

bigandymac
Registered User

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Leeds UK

Posted: Sat Sep 30 2006 10:39
yeah, all tutorials ive read, and all experience i have of using eq is that it works better to drop freqs rather than boost them. although, as qbical says, boosting some freqs can get cool effects (think resonance on filters, which boosts the frequency around the cutoff). this is a really interesting topic.

Sunbuster
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland

Posted: Sat Sep 30 2006 10:48

TNK / ATK project wrote:

I mixed (and mastered) using my equipment that both allows deep basses and high treble, without any noticeable distortion, making my mix as broad as possible, to put as many layers of instruments I could without having them interfering into each others. And indeed, the trick works... on a good equipment, where it even beats top notch productions.

This would be exactly why mixing studios often have a pair of regular speakers also. The Yamaha NS10 seems to be a popular choice for this. Although they are in fact studio monitors, they apparently have been made to simulate more normal speakers. Get a mix to sound right on them, and it's very likely it'll sound good in most situations.

TNK / ATK project wrote:

- Does anyone know the frequency range that does OK on a basic equipment ? (I'm playing with filters on Madonna's stuff to discover this right now)

If you grab a pair of basic PC speakers (no sub) and play a sine sweep in them going from 20 Hz to 20kHz, then take note at which point you start to hear the sound clearly, shouldn't that give a decent hint at where consumer equipment lies? Just an idea, don't know if it's valid. I tried this on my plastic craps and the sine wave became audible at around 100Hz and stopped being audible at around 13kHz. Note that this was just a quick test so the result should be taken with a huge grain of salt Wink

Afaik it's becomming more and more popular to indeed make separate masters for radio and CD. A couple of my friends made their thesis project as a comparison of Finnish radio stations, what signal they send out compared to the CD. The changes in dynamics were often several dB and over a broad frequency range. Pop-stations ruthlessly use AGC (automatic gain control), limiting and compression on the signal. On top of that the music isn't stored in original quality, but instead packed (think it was 160kbps mp3's usually). A lot happens to your mix after you've given the CD to the station in other words...

QBical
Registered User

Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Utrecht , The Netherlands

Posted: Sat Sep 30 2006 10:54

Sunbuster wrote:

The story behind the yamaha's is indeed that everyone would buy them because if you mixed on those it would sound great on all systems. The guy's at yamaha just made the worlds worst sounding monitor speaker Very Happy

But, I think that it's more important how good you know your monitor's then how much they cost and what kind you have.
But indeed, listening to your mix on 'crappy' hifi sets is a must have!

PC: P4 HT 3ghz, 1gb ram, 500GB+ Storage, plextor DVD-rw, M-audo Audiophile 2496
Laptop: Apple Powerbook G4 15inch
Other Stuff: Phonic MU802 mixer, Alesis M1 Active Mk2 Monitors, Ipod 2nd gen. 20GB, maxtor firewire HD 80GB

TNK / ATK project
Registered User

Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)

Posted: Sun Oct 01 2006 15:21

QBical wrote:

Does this mean that any crappy speaker could do the job here ?

Besides this, I'm quite astonished that there is - to my knowledge, tell me if I'm wrong - no plugin (or hardware even if plugins were cooler) that allows you, while mixing, to see the different spectrums of the different tracks, and to see where frequencies overlaps. Ideally, that plugin could include band pass filters allowing you to visually remove frequencies from any given track to avoid (or atleast restrain) unneccessary frequency overlaps.

While I understand that this can - and also has - to be done by the ear, I think that a visual way to do it would add some comfort to it.

Is there such a plugin/device around ?
If no, I think that coders should seriously think about it.

Switzerland : #1 earthquake provider! (Bootyshakin' Willhelm Tell ?!?)

QBical
Registered User

Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Utrecht , The Netherlands

Posted: Sun Oct 01 2006 18:36
To a degree it's always nice to separate different instruments in there own frequency range. But, only to a certain degree. If you put every instrument in his own little box the mix is going to sound pretty artificial and stuff. Some overlap is quite nice, it gives that 'analog' and warm sound. But you should judge this by ear and not by some software. It just can't beat your ears!!
PC: P4 HT 3ghz, 1gb ram, 500GB+ Storage, plextor DVD-rw, M-audo Audiophile 2496 Laptop: Apple Powerbook G4 15inch Other Stuff: Phonic MU802 mixer, Alesis M1 Active Mk2 Monitors, Ipod 2nd gen. 20GB, maxtor firewire HD 80GB

TNK / ATK project
Registered User

Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)

Posted: Sun Oct 01 2006 20:05
Sure some overlap is required, but while the ears are the final judges, having a visual representation of it could help, atleast for people that are what is called "visually minded"
Switzerland : #1 earthquake provider! (Bootyshakin' Willhelm Tell ?!?)

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