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would the option of ... be helpful?

Yes

42%

[ 6 ]

57%

[ 8 ]

Total Votes : 14

Minimalizman
User

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Location: Connersville, IN (Indy area)

Posted: Sun Nov 26 2006 20:41 Standard notation pattern editor
I think it would be extremely helpful if it were possible to edit/write each pattern on a standard musical staff. I know I am much more comfortable using this system, as are a great deal of people. Putting in note values with a standard notation system would make it very very easy to write patterns quickly and accurately. Also, if one could superimpose each pattern on top of the other on the staff, all the music (harmony, rhythm, etc.) would be visible at once. You could assign the instrument, effects, volume, etc., all on each staff. MT would simply convert this data to the standard pattern editor that's already in MT. Good idea?

D Vibe
Registered User

Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Nov 26 2006 22:46
Re: Standard notation pattern editor

Minimalizman wrote:

I think it would be extremely helpful if it were possible to edit/write each pattern on a standard musical staff. I know I am much more comfortable using this system, as are a great deal of people. Putting in note values with a standard notation system would make it very very easy to write patterns quickly and accurately. Also, if one could superimpose each pattern on top of the other on the staff, all the music (harmony, rhythm, etc.) would be visible at once. You could assign the instrument, effects, volume, etc., all on each staff. MT would simply convert this data to the standard pattern editor that's already in MT. Good idea?

For me it wouldn't be easier, so I voted no.

Though, I can see that it could be useful for some people.

This is actually something that should be possible in MT3, if it's released. I doubt that it would become reality in MT2 though Wink

..

/Daniel

https://www.dvibe.se

G3ronimo
Hot & Sexeh

Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Location: The Netherlands, Wezep

Posted: Sun Nov 26 2006 23:14
I seriously have no idea what you mean
www.soundsector.net

StyrmanLjungberg
Registered User

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Location: �stersund, Sweden

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 00:21

G3ronimo wrote:

I seriously have no idea what you mean Sad

You know theese black dots with "flags" on 'em?

Sunbuster
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 10:24
Personally, I'm more comfortable with the editing style now in place. But I would love to see a plugin that would enable exporting to "real" notes. That would make it easier to cooperate with people who know the traditional notes. There was discussion on such a topic earlier, and I even downloaded the MT2 file format specs to see if I could make such a tool, but then other things came in the way and I never started... I doubt you'll see this in the MT2 core anymore, but perhaps the infamous MT3?

G3ronimo
Hot & Sexeh

Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Location: The Netherlands, Wezep

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 10:26

StyrmanLjungberg wrote:

G3ronimo wrote:

I seriously have no idea what you mean Sad

You know theese black dots with "flags" on 'em?

oooow lol now I get it Very Happy

www.soundsector.net

bigandymac
Registered User

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Leeds UK

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 10:38
there are a couple of programs that can covert midi to standard notation. but its very complex and as such these programs are expensive (i think one is called sibelius). i would imagine from the time it has taken these programs to develop that it would be a big undertaking for yannick. i think cubase 4 has a built in notation function though, you could check that out (although thats hardly cheap either).

cHiEfRoCkA 4 ReaL
Registered User

Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Germany

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 12:10
I cant read notes.....lol.

SoulEye
Beta-Tester

Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden!

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 12:55
if I were pro with notes i probably would have used other software that MT...... but tracking is what i started with so....

StyrmanLjungberg
Registered User

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Location: �stersund, Sweden

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 15:52
An open source tracker for mac, PlauerPRO has got notation support. It's not super great. But it works. Maybe it would be easy to port that part? Nothing I can do.. but well. someone maybe could

D Vibe
Registered User

Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Sweden

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 17:04
Well, about Cubase. The simpliest Cubase version should have a notation editor (called "Score editor"). So you could buy like Cubase SE3 for some cheap bucks, enter your notes in Score editor with your favourite midi instrument (external or internal) and then export as standard midi file. Then import the midi file into Madtracker .. Tadaaa. Seems like a bit inefficient way to work though.
https://www.dvibe.se

Minimalizman
User

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Location: Connersville, IN (Indy area)

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 18:29 MIDI to Tracker
I am familiar with Sibelius, and many other notation programs. One of those -- one of the more simple ones -- Noteworthy Composer, easily allows exportation of the notation to MIDI. I have tried importing such MIDI files into MT, and it works "okay," but the problem is quantization (alignment of beats) with the pattern editor. For instance, if I had rhythm exported in MIDI, then imported to MT, MT would not recognize what I have entered as necessarily the same alignment as was in the notation. That is, beats 1,2,3,4 could be recognized by MT as 2,3,4,1. In addition, I don't know if one could import such MIDI data to a specific track and/or pattern. I was not suggesting that MT REPLACE the pattern editor with a notation editor; rather, having this feature AVAILABLE in place of, or rather, in conjunction with the pattern editor would be invaluable. The amount of time it would save would be incredible, and would make tracking extremely more intuitive for those of us trained with "dots, lines, and squiggles." There are many notation programs which can be used like trackers, but no tracking programs (of which I am aware) that incorporate standard music notation. In fact, some notation programs assemble the notes on a time line (sometimes using a piano roll), with properties such as amplitude/dynamics expressed as a horizontal line over the notation which can be raised (/) over time to denote increase, and (\) to decrease. I do not mean to imply, however, that any notation program I know of is capable of matching the production capabilites of a tracker. VST, FX, "patterns," automation, and other features are unique to trackers. The combination of the two softwares would be remarkable. I am now anxious to learn more about MT3, after your mentioning of such possible future features. Thanks for everyone's replies. Minimalizman

Ravana
Registered User

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: Oulu, Finland

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 19:15
Re: MIDI to Tracker

Minimalizman wrote:

The amount of time it would save would be incredible, and would make tracking extremely more intuitive for those of us trained with "dots, lines, and squiggles."

VST, FX, "patterns," automation, and other features are unique to trackers. The combination of the two softwares would be remarkable.

I wouldn't call it "tracking" anymore then.

And no, VST, FX, patterns and automation are not tracker-only features. I guess I missed your point here..?

http://www.mikseri.net/artists/thejollynekromanseri.51046.php

http://www.mikseri.net/artists/bewaretheconstruct.62202.php

MT source files available if requested (maybe)

Minimalizman
User

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Location: Connersville, IN (Indy area)

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 22:37 In response:
My point is that I would never want to give the impression that I'm saying notation programs are superior to trackers. The features I mentioned before may, in fact, not be "unique" to trackers, as I said, but they are certainly features that are more integrated and foundational in trackers than they are in notation software. I would still call this tracking; whether you're using notation of dots, or any other kind of symbols, matters not. You're inputting instructions to a computer, step by step, track by track. Tracking. I do not think adding something like this would in any way diminish the image, validity, or appeal of a program like MadTracker. It could either do nothing, or improve it. Don't you think? MmM

Sunbuster
Registered User

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland

Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 23:19
hmm, I guess we could discuss what tracking really means... but putting that aside, I agree it would perhaps be useful to give both options to a user. But there is a huge risk that this would cause some serious damage to the easy to use (imo) interface we have now. A program is usually better off sticking with one style of entering information. Giving users several options causes at least three problems: 1. more bugs 2. more confused users, when they don't have one or two options to choose from in order to complete a task, but perhaps 4-5. 3. a steeper learning curve I suggest reading Jeff Raskins 'The Humane Interface' if you're interested in the UI aspect of things. He makes some good points about why giving a user one way of doing things is often better than giving a user 3 ways of doing things, even if it means the user has to learn a new model for how they do something. I guess the idea you're trying to sell is a tracker equivalent of Dreamweaver, where you could drag-n-drop notes and chords etc. into place, but also go into the code and change things manually. If done properly, I guess it could be very useful. But like I said, the potential UI problems this creates are huge. btw. don't hold your breath for MT3. It's been a discussion topic for as long as I've been on this board (and me and the board are soon celebrating our 10 year anniversary )

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