kola
User
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08 2008 20:35
Does Madtracker do this? |
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Hi there.
I am after a tracker program that MUST have the following features.
1 - Play 16 bit stereo wav samples.
2 - Be able to sequence an external synth.
3 - The samples and ext synths mentioned above to play in time with each other. IE no latency.
I cant find anything to say MT doesn't do these things but would like to be reassured. |
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Amok
Registered User
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Apr 08 2008 21:35
Re: Does Madtracker do this? |
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| kola wrote: |
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...IE no latency...
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Im no pro, but as far as i know the latency depends on your sound card... |
http://www.andreasjanke.net |
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kola
User
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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Posted: Wed Apr 09 2008 11:00
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Hi there.
Ive had a bit play and see that MT can handel 16bit stereo samples so this is good.
I still need to know if it can control external midi devices such as a hardware synth. |
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MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Apr 10 2008 06:53
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| kola wrote: |
Hi there.
Ive had a bit play and see that MT can handel 16bit stereo samples so this is good.
I still need to know if it can control external midi devices such as a hardware synth.
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Madtracker is for tracking music with presampled wave sounds or using vsti softsynths. Madtracker is not mature for controlling external midi devices such as hardware synths, even though there is a limited selection of controlling external midi devices built in the program, it just isn't a good program for doing that in its current state.
Overall, if external midi controlling is what you are mainly wanting to do, then I would recommened something else that is more midi sequencer based software like for example Cubase, Cakewalk, Fruityloops etc.
But if your main goal is to have fun with samples and vsti instruments, then Madtracker might work quite well in fact. At least up to a certain level of professionalism. In the end, when running to many vst effects through madtracker, it just drains out the CPU powers of your computer. While other softwares like Cubase can do so much more realtime than within Madtracker, Cubase for example offers functions to mix down tracks to sampled wavefiles with a "freeze" function that actually helps in getting the most out of your computer hardware when using lots of vsts.
Vst's are effects (like reverb, eq, delays etc) that you in realtime can do automation to. Similar as sending midi control messages out to external effect processors.
Vsti's are virtual synths, that produce sounds through your soundcard directly. Meaning less noise issues (as it doesn't need to be sampled from external sources in mixing processes), and also much more favourable way of having total control of the sounds and sound picture in a real time state of view.
As soon as you get to know different vsti's, the old hardware just fades away... Trust me in that. I was a hardware maniac before myself, but seldom use any of my old gear anymore when composing.  It is just so much simpler to control the sound output when everything is digitalized, like adding effects and controlling it internally on-the-fly instead of having to deal with loads of external mixers and effect processors through midi... It also is a lot cheaper, since most of the vst's are freeware/shareware with very little fees to pay for using. Compare to buying hardware costs a fortune if you want to have it all setup right.
Good luck with composing, mate!
Cheers,
Magnar |
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Soldan
Registered User
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Posted: Thu Apr 10 2008 10:53
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I have to agree with everything Magnar said. In addition, If you are needing a tracker program to do those things as opposed to a more 'traditional' sequencing program I would recommend renoise. In my experience it has excellent external midi sequencing capabilities although to be honest, I cannot comment on its capabilities in terms of latency.
In regards to using madtracker as an external midi controller I have had good experience in using it as a general sequencer but I simply cannot get the CC commands to work at all. In contrast, Renoise has excellent CC capabilities including support for automation. This is the sole difference I have noted between the two programs in regards to external midi sequencing and its a damn shame since I cant imagine it would have been too difficult to implement it properly in Madtracker.
I should state that my experience in using madtracker as an external midi controller is limited to the operation of my Korg Electribe MX. It is possible that the CC commands work with other hardware but even so Madtracker will still lack the powerful automation capabilities that other programs possess.
It is my understanding but not my experience that if you have another program such as cubase or logic you can sync it with madtracker using rewire and then use that program to automate CC commands and whatever else. This way you can use madtracker as a sequencer and still maintain full control over your external hardware. However, I can imagine doing this would be a serious technical challenge especially if you have limited experience using audio production software.
On the whole I am forced to concur with Magnar that madtracker is not a suitable program for external midi sequencing. Although it can be done if other considerations compel you to do so, it may prove to be a serious challenge. |
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MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Apr 10 2008 11:12
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The problem with rewiring madtracker from Cubase (as example) is that there is latency problems through the rewire host application interface.
I have similar problems when rewire Cubase with Reason, it works very well for most of the time, but then suddenly it lags and hangs for a second before it continues.
This might be a local issue with my computers, but I tend to think it is not. I've different soundcards on the computers I use for music composing, and it is acting likeways on all. Could be software version related, though.
Anyway, - keep it simple:
It is actually better to just move on and learn some other sequencer based software like Cubase, than to try make midi controlling for external units work properly within a music tracker application.
Tracker applications are just not designed for it from its origins. Remember, the first tracker was Sound monitor made for controlling the SID chip on the C64 by Chris Huelsbaeck - and yes, I actually started composed music with that back in 1986. Trackers have evolved a lot, but still - midi sequencers are more propriate for the task of controlling external units as it gives a more flexible timeline to control everything through (every track does not share same stepping in timecodes).
/M |
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kola
User
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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Posted: Thu Apr 10 2008 11:37
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lol,
I dont know where I gave the impression I was new to music production. At 34 years old I too have been using trackers for many years starting out on the Amiga 500 with a whopping one meg upgrade in the 80s.
Chris Huelsbaecks best for me is turrican, the first one yet he seems to get more credit for Turrican 2. I never understood this as IMO and alot of others Turrican is a fantastic feat where as the second one was more of the same. Still great mind
Anyhow, my version of Octamed on my Amiga cant hold many sample due to max memory of 4 meg and also all of these superb VSTi's are never going to happen.
So, I am looking to cross over to the PC and Mad Tracker looks great.
Re noise runs from left to right. It may be nothing to some but to me this isn't the right way of doing it at all and has put me off big style.
Currently I am checking out Ableton. I cant stand Cubase and have hated it since the days of the Atari ST.
Thanks for your help and honesty re this thread. It is greatly appreciated. |
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MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Apr 10 2008 11:59
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Hello,
Agree on Turrican being one of CH's best songs. But he has a very massive background of goodies, for example Giana Sisters is another great song by him. I have always thought of him as a average composer, but suddenly he just amazes and shine! I guess that goes for everyone.
http://www.huelsbeck.com/work.html
Anyway, back to topic:
If you have been using the Amiga up to present, and playing around in old Octamed until now, then it really is nice of you to step over to PC and explore all the new possibilities. I used Octamed back on the Amiga periode myself, and it worked OK for the purpose of it then. I could never make it work today with my higer demands of having total control of sound picture etc.
I do find your statement about Cubase a bit similar to my own thoughts a year ago. I really never liked it, and actually used Cakewalk instead for many years. But last year I finally got to it, forced myself into this "ugly interface", and wohla!!! I saw the possibilties! And how simple it all made my composing!
Today, I am mostly only using Cubase because of most vsts plugin seems to have the best integration with Steinberg's application.
Not saying Cubase is the best around, but when you get beating the bush and find out how it all works, it is actually quite decent.
- just before you toss it away as an never-going-to-happen option, I would recommend you to give it a new try before totally turning it down. As I am sure the results will be worth it many times back!
A lot of old madtracker's have moved on to either Fruityloops or Cubase as a result of growing out of what Madtracker is capable of producing.
- However, Chiefrocka4real is just the total opposite example of someone that stayed using Madtracker and just continue making excellent music productions with it!
In the end, it is all about preference and personal choices.
/M |
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Soldan
Registered User
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Posted: Thu Apr 10 2008 14:42
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Didn't mean to imply that you were new to music production I really had no idea one way or the other. Anyways renoise does play from top to bottom just like other trackers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk9nBW3jI_4 |
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