MadTracker.org
Forum - getting better? ... new track
Register Register Log in Log in Profile Profile Search Memberlist Usergroups FAQ FAQ
 Forum
Music talk
 getting better? ... new track
Reply to topic Post new topic  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 10:34    
Reply with quote

Vantek wrote:
Some interesting discussion going here. I figured I'd share my somewhat different opinions.

SX001 wrote:
I really dont understand why all focus about sounds if the main core is about music, melodies and harmonies itself?

forget at once the effects (which have actually very less to do with melody), just make music and new pieces -- thats the best way to make music better, much better than effects and compressors. Smile


I disagree 100%. Melody and harmony and rythm is important, but to me amounts to absolute zilch without the right kind of sound. You can take one of my favourite tracks which I think has utter genius melody and rythm, but if you give it an even slightly different sound which doesn't fit in my opinion, it very quickly becomes completely worthless.


I wrote it becouse comments to papa-bear were sound/technical biased while I saw that hey, it requires first musical development not technical. Or was that track so perfect by others listeners option that it required just technical "upgrade"? No, just tweaking sounds seems fancier and easier.
So, where "all other" have gone to extreme end about tweaking sounds and ignored melody, I must just go to another extreme end and say about music to keep in balance to get others to listen, becouse otherwise the comment will just be misunderstood or unnoticed if I say "little bit about music theory too".

But yes, in the environment where the musician can make a rich harmonies on whatever instruments, your comment works very well. But they already know that then...
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
Vantek
User


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 19:49    
Reply with quote

SX001 wrote:
So, where "all other" have gone to extreme end about tweaking sounds and ignored melody, I must just go to another extreme end and say about music to keep in balance to get others to listen, becouse otherwise the comment will just be misunderstood or unnoticed if I say "little bit about music theory too".

Hehe, looks like you were doing the same thing with balancing music theory and sound, as I did with balancing optimism and pessimism Razz

SX001 wrote:
Vantek wrote:

If someone who is about to embark on a creative journey would consider it a waste of time it if he didn't hope to get x amount of money or y number of fans, then he really should consider what is the realistic possibility that he gets x amount of money or y number of fans. Otherwise he is in danger of wasting his time by his own standard.


it has always worth to try if thats what he was living for.

"wasting his time?" -- what he should have done otherwise? The time is wasted only if doing something he does NOT want to do!
You cant say that the time was wasted becouse he did not succeeded.


Look again what I wrote. I was specifically careful with my wording so that people would not take it the way you took it.

I wrote, IF HE HIMSELF would consider it a waste of time if he didn't succeed, THEN he should take particular care to evaluate facts in a sober rational way.

If he himself would consider it 100% worth it no matter wether he succeeds or not, then he should GO FOR IT even if everyone else considers it 100% waste of time, that's what I've been saying throughout.

SX001 wrote:
NO ONE can say whats realistic. Or if someone can then how you define realistic (see my post above and compare the goals of mine and of SoulEyes in text).

Let's try to not get entangled in argument about terminology, or a metaphysical argument about what's reality. I hope it should not be difficult to understand what I mean. I'll try to elaborate some more but if it's still unclear to you, then I don't know what to do about it.

I think I know what you have in mind - if someone believes he can achieve something, then he will have much higher motivation, make much more effort, and thus gives himself a much better chance to actually achieve that something. I totally recognise this point and agree that this is important for people to realise.

But there are still unobjectionable limits. A person who sincerely and genuinely believes he can magically fly, if he jumps off a skyscraper he will hit the pavement at the exact same speed as a person without that inspirational belief would.

If you believe something within these limits, then I 100% cheer that belief. Because then it is simply a sober and rational belief to have. Would I be able to become a worldwide recognised artist if I truly put my soul into it? Yes, I think there is a solid chance that I would, why wouldn't there be? It is simply a rational belief to hold. But would I be able to jump to the moon using my calf muscles or cure the cancer tomorrow? No, I simply would not be able to do that no matter how much I believed in it.

Would there be 100% guarantee that I would have millions of fans and make millions of dollars if I truly poured my soul into becoming an artist? Absolutely not. If I truly and genuinely believed that, then the most likely thing that would happen is at some point reality would catch up with me and brutally crush my dreams. It would be a terrible thing and you should not wish this on anyone. Yes, there would still be some chance that I actually do achieve that absurd goal. But that small chance would not be worth the huge chance that I will get completely crushed.

SX001 wrote:
ACtually it would be interesting to know, what is your background, how are you related to music?

Well... I have a quite strong interest in music and I think I have the capabilities required to become a professional musician, and that would probably be one of the most enjoyable career options for me. However, I would have to take big risks to actually go for it. So all of this thread is actually very relevant to me.

If I took what seems to be your advice, and just believed in myself 100% and went for it, there is a high chance I would end up financially and emotionally bankrupt. I don't need a lot of money but I need something to pay the bill with and I don't have the energy to both do some plain job just for the livelihood and then advance my musical career at the same time. Following this advice would put me in a very dangerous situation.

Yes, it is true that some people underestimate their abilities, and your advice would help them. But it is also possible to overestimate yourself, and that is not any less dangerous mistake to make. Both possibilities should be considered. One should avoid underestimating himself, but one should avoid overestimating himself either.

I will not make any rash decisions just because I'm interested in music and have a good chance at becoming an artist. I have a good chance, but no guarantee, and I would need a guarantee to make radical decisions. If I had guarantee that I would become successful artist if I tried, then I would quit my studies tomorrow and just start intensely learning how to make music. But I don't have that guarantee, I just don't. If you make 50 clones of me in alternative realities, maybe a third or a half or two thirds of them would succeed, but not all. So instead, I will continue with my relatively secure scientist career, while still leaving me decent amount of time for music on the side. I will still have slightly less of a chance becoming an artist this way, but I will also have a considerably lower chance of ending up broke and crushed.
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
Vantek
User


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 20:08    
Reply with quote

LMAO, this is simply hilarious. In a small Estonian forum, just a few hours ago I discovered an artist who has tons of material, and now I am desperately urging him to accept the fact that his music is world-class and he has a solid chance of going pro pretty much rightaway. Just hilarious how I wonder upon this thread and make a passionate argument for the pessimistic side here, then almost the next day find this guy and make an even far more passionate argument for the optimist side. What an amazing coincidence.

The artist himself is here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Cosmithex

I guess it's hard to grasp when it's not the kind of music you listen to, but I'm telling you, this is top-notch stuff. It's incredible how little attention he has sought for himself.
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 21:28    
Reply with quote

(to those who dont bother or dont have time to read entire message -- we all make our decisions how we want to live.)

Quote:

I wrote, IF HE HIMSELF would consider it a waste of time if he didn't succeed, THEN he should take particular care to evaluate facts in a sober rational way.

If he himself would consider it 100% worth it no matter wether he succeeds or not, then he should GO FOR IT even if everyone else considers it 100% waste of time, that's what I've been saying throughout.


ok, thats ok. so it means that music is to me... and I should not recommend these lines to others who wanted to have something secure...

Quote:

Would there be 100% guarantee that I would have millions of fans and make millions of dollars if I truly poured my soul into becoming an artist? Absolutely not. If I truly and genuinely believed that, then the most likely thing that would happen is at some point reality would catch up with me and brutally crush my dreams.


You are afraid to go to totally unknown territory in a
mental way? Guarantee? There is no such thing when living a life.
(see below actually the longer text).
Then there are other activities which are safe -- women.
And you learn very fast that they are keeping this kind of guarantee always -- they dont need security. They want security in _men_. Wink Seems it always secure.... well, nope.
but much more secure than going totally in music. Just remember your teenager dreams wanting this and that, and that third babe too hehee). These activities are a MUCH less risky. Wink


we can only make some kind of calculated risks.
well, if I would have always calculated the risks then
I would have just stayed where I was 6 years ago.

Quote:

It would be a terrible thing and you should not wish this on anyone. Yes, there would still be some chance that I actually do achieve that absurd goal. But that small chance would not be worth the huge chance that I will get completely crushed.


Actually it really works totally opposite too. Just one
human has reached before me and have written this idea in his book -- the beginners have tendency to be successful and the only reason is that they "did not knew that it was impossible". ANd they say itself too "but I did not knew that it was impossible" if you ask "how you succeeded? I thought it was impossible".
And it is in any field.
Men which are already experienced and 60 year old, I dont recommend to try, they will just attract troubles.



Quote:

I have the capabilities required to become a professional musician, and that would probably be one of the most enjoyable career options for me. However, I would have to take big risks to actually go for it. So all of this thread is actually very relevant to me.
...
Following this advice would put me in a very dangerous situation.
...
/--and some more lines with this emotion---/



Yes you sound quite disappointed, but also very afraid.
So,
A) just do the normal work and
after the work just deal with music as a bonus and be
thankful that you are secured with a normal income.
B) holding back becouse of fear is not fair..

Just do your own choices.

Actually I should have remembered the recommendation what I heard in high school already "You do many things but you dont think about consequences that someone may try to imitate and will harm himself". My early activities were not less risky actually. I did quite many risky things with bicycle and other things what I said as not a big deal BUT other guys and girls tried to copy, well... not everyone was lucky (thank god that I did NOT had a motorcycle when I was a teenager then).

I make it my own way becouse I just find that following the jobb-sex-flatTV-family circle is boring to me. after a year its like watching simpson series 100th time. If I follow that circle then I get nothing, and the only people who benefit is government and that leecher boss who will thank that I help them to get THEIR goals while to me that 8--17 time is a dead time. So, thats it and I consider actually being leeched at work and another half of the day being leeched by kids+wife a much worse than being dead BECOUSE I never have a time to do what I REALLY want to do.

Actually... just read that longer text which I wrote before in this thread where I wrote also about that "why you sacrifice your 3 hours spare time to make family instead to deal with something what you REALLY want to?"
I want something more in my life than being leeched and used -- I want to live my OWN dreams. And thats just my own will.


Also... I find myself in a situation where I see everything insecure, so, in this situation I take a chance which is to my own nature and what I really want and I leave behind all the following -- trust to other people and their promises, authorities, advertisements. I just make what I really want to.


Quote:

I will not make any rash decisions just because I'm interested in music and have a good chance at becoming an artist. I have a good chance, but no guarantee, and I would need a guarantee to make radical decisions. If I had



I have never had any guarantee, and still I have bought a load of synthesizers (and 95% of them were bought with bank transfers without any paypal and so actually no warranty if something goes wrong with money. But again, I saw that I had more to win than to loose).
And I made it only to FOLLOW MY OWN HEART'S DESIRE what I deeply badly wanted. It has nothing with logic to do. Otherwise I would have thought the next 20 years "why I was so coward and I did not tried?!". I was afraid too that well perhaps later its the failure, but I got the thought ---- even then I am satisfied becouse I really followed MY OWN heart. It makes life worth to live. To me.


And wha-wha-what about if its failure? Relax, I never did anything wrong. I always followed my voice inside and did my own will, so I did everything which was accordingly to my own power.
jobb-wife-flatTV circle -- return to this life is ALWAYS possible and waiting, but then thats no more what I decide and never what I will. If I return to this circle then I am disappointed in myself, given up my dreams and it means that more than dead. Smile But everything else which makes me feel more alive and living my own life I do it without hesitation and well... guarantee? ... I'm the first to tear off "Warranty void" label on things.

P.S.: That I still know that pure daydreaming without action is not enough. Wink


Last edited by SX001 on Fri Mar 11 2011 22:46; edited 7 times in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 21:50    
Reply with quote

Vantek wrote:


I guess it's hard to grasp when it's not the kind of music you listen to, but I'm telling you, this is top-notch stuff. It's incredible how little attention he has sought for himself.


well here are a many of those, but I find this one a better
actually both melodically, harmonically, sonically and with lyrics. To me its a rare find and its that something rare "italo disco". Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSfjAvPTOaY
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
Vantek
User


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 22:32    
Reply with quote

Quote:
Guarantee? There is no such thing when living a life.

Sure there is. Oh sure, not an ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTE guarantee... But within reason, say 95% guarantee. There is a 95% guarantee that I will live a stable happy life with my scientist career. You obviously seem to have a very condescending view towards a stable traditional career and consider it unbearably boring, but towards the end of your post you correctly realised yourself that this is only your subjective opinion. Most other people enjoy such a life, or else they wouldn't be living it. And might I had else you wouldn't have such a comfortable shelter, food, medicine and safety either. It's only because people have done these "boring" jobs that we don't have to fight with starvation and horrible diseases every day. It's only because people have done "boring" jobs that it is even possible for anyone to do anything except boring jobs. I would have more respect for these "boring" people.

So there is a guarantee with scientist career. How about if I threw everything else away for music though? Then there is a very good chance, a 30% or 50% or even a 70% chance, that I will end up absolutely miserable, unable to do anything except work one of those boring jobs which I would actually hate, just to feed myself, without any energy left over to do almost anything creative at all, maybe not even any energy to have any social life, probably struggling with depression for the rest of my life. Is the chance of being just perhaps slightly happier really worth that risk? It just is not.

Quote:
its wrong to hold back yourself becouse of fears of failure.

It's not wrong when your fears of failure are 100% justified. If I threw everything else away for music, then there would be 30% or 50% or 70 % chance that it really just would not work out, that I would just run out of money and the only way to not simply end up on the streets as a homeless person would be to accept some simple job which I would hate. I might have fear but only because there is a very good reason. Fear is an adaptive necessity. If people had no fear, we would all be dead.


Last edited by Vantek on Fri Mar 11 2011 22:42; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
Vantek
User


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 22:41    
Reply with quote

On another note, I am actually going to try to seriously promote that completely unknown artist I talked about all over the internet. Any tips at all on how to go about doing that? SoulEye, I'm looking at you Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11 2011 23:44    
Reply with quote

Vantek wrote:
You obviously seem to have a very condescending view towards a stable traditional career and consider it unbearably boring, but towards the end of your post you correctly realised yourself that this is only your subjective opinion. Most other people enjoy such a life, or else they wouldn't be living it.


they EXIST, but they dont LIVE actually. Living are those who command the masses. A human to them is "just another
brick of the wall".


About traditional career -- if it works to someone, good luck, but not to me.
what I have heard are only LIES,
EMPTY PROMISES, GIVING FAKE HOPE. I have never had such warranty that I will get promoted or salary rise. And never was. So it does not work to me. No hard feelings becouse I get my own life instead and I welcome these extremes.

majority do work what they do NOT want to but they have no other choice and so they are forced actually with arguments and they dont get that in return what THEY will. So its fake.
But most of them dont have even time to think about their situation.
there are many who dont get a chance so, they are more and less like a slaves actually with 3 hours for slaves reproduction and still they have a hope to do what they really want to and get rid of that "stupid 9-17 cycle".

Quote:

I would have more respect for these "boring" people.
/-/-/
So there is a guarantee with scientist career.


Boring werent always so. boring are boring becouse they have forgotten and lost their own free will I guess and let them to form accordingly to others will? Formed, obeying, classified, just like another.

I have a respect to enthusiasts who deal with their own thing what they really love to do, and they do it always whatever if its their work or spare time. Those dedicated and passionate persons...

Quote:

without any energy left over to do almost anything creative at all, maybe not even any energy to have any social life, probably struggling with depression for the rest of my life. Is the chance of being just perhaps slightly happier really worth that risk? It just is not.


fascinating, just thats EXACTLY it how I felt after getting a real jobb -- from that day I had no energy at all, depression and zero creativity.


Quote:

the only way to not simply end up on the streets as a homeless person would be to accept some simple job which I would hate. I might have fear but only because there is a


most people hate the jobb what they do. And
if you would love your jobb then you would stick to it
and thats all. Music is passion and science is just a tiny
piece of it.
Also,... there are many other ways to be homeless and more than you can imagine. You can end up being homeless even if having money to pay a whole years rent... So schematic --
the enough for it is actually just renting an apartment which costs more than social insurance money which will come in if you loose your job... thats insurance what you are after, but well... what if its lower than expenses?

Quote:

Fear is an adaptive necessity. If people had no fear, we would all be dead.


You are more into argumentation and this I am not accepting.
I have said already and all and I dont let myself dragged into your own game.
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SoulEye
Beta-Tester


Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12 2011 08:48    
Reply with quote

Vantek wrote:
On another note, I am actually going to try to seriously promote that completely unknown artist I talked about all over the internet. Any tips at all on how to go about doing that? SoulEye, I'm looking at you Very Happy


Well... The magic trick is to just believe in yourself and it will all happen automatically. So, start believing now. Force it!

If you read the above lines and felt in your gut that this was bad advice then I must work on my presentation of jokes... Tee-hee. Smile

So, seriously: Learn about positive thinking, (internet) marketing and what people respond to. A good starting point can be Frank Kern's "Core influence" but there's a sea of litterature covering it. The "thing" that will make it happen is YOU. If you want to promote something to be attractive, YOU must be attractive.

I found the music you linked to enjoyable, but I know of MANY artists who do almost exactly the same thing, so this guy will need a way to stand out somehow. Find out what makes him special and work that angle.


http://www.souleye.se
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Vantek
User


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12 2011 10:40    
Reply with quote

SoulEye wrote:
I know of MANY artists who do almost exactly the same thing


links?
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12 2011 10:51    
Reply with quote

Vantek you had actually answered yourself to your question in your first post -- that you should go to music but you do not want to take a risk as its very risky. Whats still not clear?


A tip to you: just check the bankers "agreements". The banks will NEVER take a risk, all risks are on customers only.


IF you are afraid to fall down then you should forget all about music.

But if you want to go this way then you should forget all about your actual risk calculation and forget all above what you just wrote before in those long messages as it requires total buildup from the ground again in mentality.


Last edited by SX001 on Sat Mar 12 2011 11:03; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SoulEye
Beta-Tester


Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12 2011 11:01    
Reply with quote

Vantek wrote:
links?


Any field has lots of competitors unless you make up your own field. Here's but one site which hosts simliar music: http://www.ektoplazm.com/

For me, anybody can point to 8bc.org and say "HEY LOOK AT THAT GUY!". About a million other guys who do chipmusic better than me. My only strength is that I know what kind of music I want to make, and while I can appreciate others for their music, I try my best to give my fans that intangiable thing that is "me". I may borrow stuff from here and there, but my own essence is always shining through.


http://www.souleye.se
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12 2011 17:59    
Reply with quote

...and there is also many many sites where to upload your music.
Hey, what if we live in the time where there is more music than actual demand? -- possibilities to make music yourself is much more available (its both good and bad), also music availability, plus sites for free download.
Also, how users are expected to pay for some release if in this information noise are so many freely downloadable things?

And about success... perhaps there arent actually so many of those who actually are good? I click on every link I find and I listen quite much music and sort it what I find in the net, and yes really it REQUIRES patience to listen mostly.
In this sea I find music which I like less and less as
there will be more noise.
I got imagination that job as a demo listener in recording company is painful activity; especially now as it opens possibilities to many new computer users who perhaps are thinking "what for are those black keys".


Last edited by SX001 on Sat Mar 12 2011 18:09; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SoulEye
Beta-Tester


Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12 2011 18:08    
Reply with quote

If you can reach out to enough people, you will find your fans. There IS more music than there is a demand. People have been making music since long before we graced this earth, but that doesn't stop anybody from making more. To ask the question is irrelevant in a way that it offers only an excuse to not make music. Quite silly, if you ask me. Because in the end, I make music because I want to, not neccessarily because others want to hear it - it's nice to make music for fans and stuff and I have done that too, but it's not my core motivation.

As to the second part: How they FIND you is one thing (promotion etc). But pay? Try to let them listen for free. If they deem it worthy of their money, they will pay. I am at the mercy of people who want to do the right thing, and thankfully, there are quite a lot of people like that around the world. It's just that nobody talks about those.

In the end, you'll have to experiement. Take some good advice (marketing again) and then go for it. Adapt. Release. Observe. Adapt. Review. Release. Etc.


http://www.souleye.se
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Vantek
User


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13 2011 12:14    
Reply with quote

Vantek wrote:
As I said, I do agree you can practice sound. Personally though, it's very hard for me to do this intentionally solely for the purpose of practice. I can only find the motivation to work with technical details and effects when the melody and rythm are boiling inside me and forcing me to try to find a way to pour them into the right kind of sound.

I will revise this a little bit. This was just my general laziness speaking. It's definitely possible to practice getting the right kind of sound intentonally solely for the purpose of practice, unless you are an awful lazy sausage (like I often am).


Last edited by Vantek on Sun Mar 13 2011 14:36; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
Reply to topic Post new topic  
Display posts from previous:   
Page 4 of 6 All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

Copyright © 1998-2005 Yannick Delwiche
All rights reserved