MadTracker.org
Forum - Soundcard recommendations?
Log in Log in Profile Profile Search Memberlist Usergroups FAQ FAQ
 Forum
Help and support
 Soundcard recommendations?
Reply to topic Post new topic  
chiefrocka4real
User


Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04 2012 16:14    
Soundcard recommendations?
Reply with quote

Hi folks,

Im thinking of buying a new soundcard.
Im still producing with madtracker and everything is good so far.
At the moment I have a Creative Soundblaster X-Fi in my system which is actually a gamercard, so I would love to get a new one.
I read some good stuff about the ESI Juli@.

But actually now I wonder whether I really need a new one or is my topical enough for madtracker?

Will it make any difference on the soundquality when I export Modules to wav files?

Would be nice if yall could help me out Smile.

Thx in advance and a happy new year!
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Martin
Registered User


Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09 2012 13:11    
Reply with quote

As far as i know, the wav rendering is done by software only, so a new soundcard will not make a better output file for you. However, a better card may help you producing a better sound, so indirectly it might help you.


~ http://martin.madtracker.net ~
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10 2012 13:33    
Re: Soundcard recommendations?
Reply with quote

chiefrocka4real wrote:
Hi folks,
At the moment I have a Creative Soundblaster X-Fi in my system which is actually a gamercard, so I would love to get a new one.
I read some good stuff about the ESI Juli@.
But actually now I wonder whether I really need a new one or is my topical enough for madtracker?


Its only a name. I have a "homecinema card" and still does fine.
What are your expectations at first? Write!

After seeing Soundblaster specifications (24bit/96kHz, SPDIF I/O, MIDI I/O, ASIO 2.0) then I say that you already have that card which is a good one for Madtracker.


Perhaps a midi keyboard (if you dont have one) and learning how to play? That would be a better investment instead of a new card if seeing which card you already have.

I have both m-Audio DELTA1010 and Soundblaster in my machine for Madtracker and just for making Madtracker music with VSTs actually both cards will do great, but
I use Madtracker only as a sampler output and synths are hardware, so DELTA1010 is only a multiple sample output in realtime for mixer).


Quote:


Will it make any difference on the soundquality when I export Modules to wav files?


No difference,export is possible in Madtracker software in a non-realtime even if you dont have no soundcard at all.

BUT wait... The only difference would be (if any) if you are exporting modules in _realtime_ over that SPDIF I/O becouse you are still using non-registered copy. Very Happy


If still you think about that then try one of these aces below too. Strong overkill for madtracker Very Happy Very Happy

MOTU 828 mk III
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3

or that one:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

M-audio DELTA 1010

But dont use these to listen with earplugs or hi-fi speakers Very Happy

In other words - you have that card already.
Well, that ESI Juli@ is not improvement if SB is enough for your purpose (if its still is just making music with VSTs).
Get a midi controller instead and learn to play if you dont have one.
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
D Vibe
Registered User


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14 2012 22:54    
Reply with quote

I've not tested any X-Fi card, but it seems fine for the job you're doing.

Any specific reason you want to buy a new one?

Are you recording sounds from external sources, such as synthesizers and microphones?


http://www.dvibe.se

Last edited by D Vibe on Sat Jan 14 2012 23:00; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
D Vibe
Registered User


Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14 2012 22:58    
Reply with quote

SX001:
I'm not sure in what way a midi keyboard will help Chiefrocka in the quest of finding a new sound card?


http://www.dvibe.se
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cHiEfRoCkA 4 ReaL
Registered User


Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16 2012 09:22    
Reply with quote

Thx a lot for all your replies Smile.

Well I didnt have any specific reason.
Just thought of improving my output sound.
But I actually assumed that the SB X-Fi is enough for the things I m doing with madtracker.
I thought of this because I think - or maybe I just surmise - that my songs dont sound as warm as professional ones, even I spent a lot of time with mastering (EQing, compressing, limiting).
So I had the stupid idea that I try a new soundcard maybe.
Well I only produce hip hop beats with madtracker and vsts.
I dont use a keyboard or dont need to record anything, except for scratches from the turntable.
Anyways, thx to all of you, you helped me a lot Smile




 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16 2012 13:54    
Reply with quote

D Vibe wrote:
SX001:
I'm not sure in what way a midi keyboard will help Chiefrocka in the quest of finding a new sound card?


that guy was looking for a investment, but was not certain if thats a soundcard he needs (or he actually has it already). But all this has to do with music so it seems like midi keyboard would be a better thing to buy.
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16 2012 14:31    
Reply with quote

cHiEfRoCkA 4 ReaL wrote:
I thought of this because I think - or maybe I just surmise - that my songs dont sound as warm as professional ones, even I spent a lot of time with mastering (EQing, compressing, limiting).



Well, then say so next time. Very Happy Thats a totally different chapter. These things are called "exciters".

But what is socalled warmth?
the "warmth" is actually quite specific distortions and extra overtones (so called "colorization"), which has nothing to do with soundcard itself.
Well, thats why the pros do odd things for this sake as:
* all digital outputs are mixed in analog and recorded back
as 2 track in digital
* they use tube compressors
* still using analog mixing consoles with analog EQs or
tube EQs.
* pure clean digital thing is recorded to the tape just to
record it back in digital (using tape for one time) on
distortion level on the low freqs, or they turn down recording bias.
* operating with sound transformators at their saturation level
* even if there are very good amplifiers on the market they experiment with very primitive A-class amplifiers still to get that warmth.

So, it means that "warmth" is actually specific errors which does not belong in digital domain as it does not compute
exactly!
In this point of view while having a totally digital environment with >140dBs dynamic, noise free, no ground loops etc... then dealing with analog equipment seems very odd, but if you stuck on that environment, then thats the sound you can get - sterile-clean. Wink
The sound through all these digital things is this way a too clean as they are pure mathematical calculations.
So thats why they add back that noise through analog things recording etc. - to get that warmth.

Programmers try to emulate all of the above in the list, but it still does not replace that all analog stuff becouse all these warmth-things belong to analog world and are hard to calculate and requires much processing power even now. Its like emulating analog synth filters!


The simplest thing is to get somewhere Ozone mastering thing which has this kind of exciter as builtin digital feature, but thats only one thing and not even close to the real world!

What you can do atleast is just to experiment with Soundblaster built in EQ - record back through its EQ. That one will color the sound too as its not a pure digital device. That one does not cost a penny. Also analog EQs have a big advantage if you can get a one of them. Whatever which one!
For second - tape or cassette player (read below).

If you would have bought a new soundcard, then you would have been even more disappointed becouse these sound even more "sterile". Soundblaster still has some treble controls while for a new soundcard you need this and that extra too.


Funny thing is that its not easy to get the same sound from digital EQ for drums which I get from analog EQ if it considers about high frequencies (whatever in Madtracker or in Cubase or ProTools).

About tape recording I can say that average listener now cant even hear a difference if thats direct recording or it comes from tape, becouse they dont even hear a difference if it comes from cassette even! -- I tried the blind test on my friends. Chrome type, and recorder was TASCAM-103. If all
is serviced right then there would be no audible difference.
So, not even a worry about that "cassette sounds worse than CD" if its a tuned up cassette recorder in a working condition.
BUT it can do a difference -- to make things sharper than these really are when you try turning down the BIAS while recording over tape, or record with dolby and play back without dolby !

If you have some elementary electronic skills then you can also build yourself some A-class amplifier circuits for this kind of distortions.

Just experiment if thats the sound you are after, but while comparing the results its good to have an neutral equipment (so, which does NOT play back things warmer than they usually are!).

And one thing more: Actually thats the classic thing with tracker modules since Fasttracker 2, that they all have that recognizable crisp and detailed, but yet that sound recognized as "tracker sound" unless you dont use quite odd instruments.


Last edited by SX001 on Thu Jan 19 2012 14:58; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
cHiEfRoCkA 4 ReaL
Registered User


Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18 2012 12:39    
Reply with quote

Alright thx a lot for your explanation.

You helped me out a lot Smile.

cheers




 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Martin
Registered User


Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21 2012 12:52    
Reply with quote

very interesting and informative post, SX001! Smile


~ http://martin.madtracker.net ~
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message Visit poster's website
SX001
Registered User


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22 2012 01:42    
Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
very interesting and informative post, SX001! Smile


thanks, thats the place if people need reading like from a book sometimes.
 Back to top
View user's journal Send private message
Reply to topic Post new topic  
Display posts from previous:   
Page 1 of 1 All times are GMT + 1 Hour


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

Copyright © 1998-2005 Yannick Delwiche
All rights reserved