em22
Registered User
Joined: 06 May 2003
Location: Manchester, England
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 Posted: Wed Jul 14 2004 16:35
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no I didnt read your posts Inge, they were just too long and kinda bored me  hehe!
the beauty of free speech. Like i said I wasnt bothered with my track, but it was just the reviews that gave me reason to moan....
two days off work, that'll make me better  |
em22 |
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AndyWilliams
Registered User
Joined: 06 May 2003
Location: London
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Posted: Wed Jul 14 2004 19:41
Some things never change do they.... |
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If you can do a better job, submit a plan to Yannick and see what he thinks. Everyone should get involved - The more input, the better the output no ? 
Andy |
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aRGee
Registered User
Joined: 24 May 2003
Location: Holland
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Posted: Wed Jul 14 2004 21:03
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| papfanis wrote: |
Since it is mentioned by Sunbuster, I would like to ask about the prizes:
1. Who win (which ranks) and what?
2. Is there any announcement concerning the prizes?
I mean that I know what the prizes are, but I don't know who took them
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Iīm also curious, who has won what. Did the winner take al the prizes  , or are they divided somehow?
And offcourse... who had the best "Madtracker-splashscreen-vocal" and will these be played in a special radio-broadcast also  ? |
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Inge
Man-At-Arms
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
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Posted: Wed Jul 14 2004 21:20
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| em22 wrote: |
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no I didnt read your posts Inge, they were just too long and kinda bored me hehe!
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Yeah, I know that feeling from reading my own texts. Luckily, I just copy-paste them from a library of standard replies. Like this one. I downloaded the libary from Soulseek, so I got no clue what I actually post round here.
Inge
[id: #e694] |
Care for a game of Monopoly? |
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TNK / ATK project
Registered User
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)
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Posted: Wed Jul 14 2004 23:25
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Hmm... preselection... that sounds bad.
How would the preselection be done ?
This once again requires somebody to listen to all the entries, so we're at the starting point once again.
If preselections are OK for demoparties musiccompos (as you can't have all the audiance listening to 200 tunes and remembering them all!), I think that a compo like this one should not have any kind of preselection.
With several judges, you can get several point of views, and the reviews are more balanced. If only one person would have made the preselection, it would have given him/her too much power.
Just see what happened to my entry : There were lotsa different opinions about it : "Global" score ranging from 4 to 8, Technical score too, Theme score ranging from 3 to 9...
Several judges gave my song a balanced view. If I had been judged by only one person, my scoring would have put me in the top ten or in the flop ten, depending on who was the judge. And this would have added too much randomness to that compo.
I don't want the MT compo to become a lottery !
/TNK |
Switzerland : #1 earthquake provider! (Bootyshakin' Willhelm Tell ?!?) |
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Inge
Man-At-Arms
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Nieuw Lekkerland @ Holland
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Posted: Wed Jul 14 2004 23:46
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Any alternatives for a reviewing system can always be posted here. The problem this year for the judges was the tremendous amount of entries that had to be reviewed. Reviewing is not a simple, five minutes proces (where's that link again to Sunbusters equation of how long a review takes?), but an extensive, time consuming activity. Doing such a thing for 50 entries (of which 30 lack a certain amount of quality) is quite difficult. In my opinion, the better the song is, the more attention it deserves. Pre-selection enables such a focused method. Downside is the lottery-aspect that TNK describes properly: every entry should get equal chances of getting attention.
So what system gives the ideal balance? You tell us. The better the underlaying system is, the better the judging will be. Helping us helps yourself. Think with us.
Inge |
Care for a game of Monopoly? |
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TNK / ATK project
Registered User
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)
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Posted: Thu Jul 15 2004 01:03
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| Inge wrote: |
So what system gives the ideal balance? You tell us. The better the underlaying system is, the better the judging will be. Helping us helps yourself. Think with us.
Inge
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Maybe a mixed method :
- 1st round : Like it is today, with a minimum of half of the judging team reviewing each entry (this means that if there are 6 judges, 3 will atleast have to say something on the entry)
- 2nd round : All 20 entries that made it to the top 20 get re-examined by the remaining jury members, just to determine their appropriate order in the Top 20.
/TNK |
Switzerland : #1 earthquake provider! (Bootyshakin' Willhelm Tell ?!?) |
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Sero
Registered User
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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Posted: Thu Jul 15 2004 14:29
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The madtracker-crew should be proud of themselves, doin this great job, and putting this amount of energy in reviewing songs and confronting ppl with sincere debates. Still, I have some (hopefully) constructive concerns...
Imagine a song, that a writer produces, which is meant to give a chilled and relaxed impression on a listener. With this might follow that the rythm of the track is a basic and simple one (i.e not varied). Even if the song-mixing, and the quality of the track is excellent, this song would be able to have a top score in a review.
Take the winning-song for an example. Meltic Stormīs "Casual" wouldnt have got so far, if it wouldnt have been for the varied and skilled rythms. But what if Meltic tended to invoke simplicity in his song, and with that, stripped the beat to a more basic one? Then this song would had got a top spot.
This I believe is a problem. In a competition you have to proof that you are technically skilled, even if your song is ment to be a simple one. I think that public votings, to an extent, would overcome this issue. |
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Sunbuster
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Jul 15 2004 19:57
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You bring up a very good point there Sero. For me as a judge this was one of the most difficult aspects of the whole reviewing, to decide when a simple structure was motivated and intentional, and when it was just lack of technical skill from the artist. A public vote could as you say solve this to some extent, but there again is the issue of impartiality. A judge should in general be considered impartial, because he has nothing to gain from the victory of one person (unless they have some agreement) and because he is in a trusted position and thus probably has some pressure from the public to do the right thing.
In a public vote again the risk is that not the artist with the best musical talent gets ahead, but instead the artist with the best marketing skills gets ahead because he/she will be able to get more people to vote for his/her song. And then of course theres the risk of the artist finding some way of voting for him/herself. |
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mikx
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Jul 16 2004 06:43
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i may or may not have a solution. what do you think of this:
5 judges - one for every review aspect. i.e. 1 judge for reviewing originality, 1 judge to revirew technicality, etc.. that way the judges only have to look at one aspect of every track rather than having to concentrate on everything.
every track gets reviewed (doesnt have to be a written review, as long as it just gets some points on the board, so to speak), because review time is shorter for ever judge. at the end yannick or whoever else can add up the average for the track, etc..
it might work??
mikx |
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Sunbuster
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Finland
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Posted: Fri Jul 16 2004 09:35
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to me that sounds like an idea definetly worth considering. We should think through it a bit, see if we can find any flaws in the concept |
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